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 MatC
     
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
 |  |  | "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
< on 10/10/2004 5:19 PM >
|  | | | I need some help figuring out if a door I am thinking of going through is going to set off an alarm if I open it. (I apologize in advance that I don't have pictures of this door. I will try to get some soon.)
The door of which I speak has one of those bars and boxes that says, "Alarm Will Sound If Door Is Opened." Like this:
It is a regular door with a flat push-bar attached to a box (which houses both the emitter of the alarm sound and the door latch) and another small box on the wall, where the latch enters and, presumably if contact is broken, the alarm goes off.
In the case of this door, though, the latch section looks like this:
As in, the latch from the box on the door itself is not engaged with the box on the wall (picture what happens to a latch on a door if you turn the handle and hold it).
Now, while this may seem like a no-brainer (the latch isn't engaged, so of course the alarm won't go off) I am wondering if these types of doors ever operate via both mechanical and magnetic means (as in, if the magnetic field is interrupted, the alarm goes off, as well as if the latch itself is unengaged). If the alarm is operated only by the latch, it looks like it would be possible to just push the door straight out (without touching the flat bar, of course).
This door exits onto a hotel roof, so I am wondering if workers might have left it unlocked to allow easy access without special keys and are counting on the sign to deter curious guests. The whole question may be moot, though, because also on the door is a large warning sign (one of the few I tend to heed) stating that beyond the doorway there are high concentrations of radio frequencies (this is backed up by the presence of a large RF array visible from the ground) hence perhaps why they installed a deterrent system in the first place -- to protect people's health, as well as to keep people off the roof.
Any suggestions or stories of previous experience with such doors would be appreciated!
-- Mat
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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Servo
| | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 1 on 10/10/2004 5:26 PM >
| | | | This isn't 100%, but do you see any magnetic switches around the edges of the door? They could be embedded in the door frame, but if its a large metal fire door, I kinda doubt it. Also, how close is the latch section and the section it goes into? Do you think it's close enough that there could be a magnetic switch in that part? Do you see anything that looks like it could be one?
AFAIK, these are actuated by the bar press entirely, but again, I can't be sure of that. Hopefully someone with more experience will answer...
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nostra-YOUPPI!
Umpire
Location: Shahre:'on Kaybec
Bonsoir et cest partie
| | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 2 on 10/10/2004 6:32 PM >
| | | | the older ones that look like the one you drew, have a big ol battery box in em, and are totally independant, the battery runs down after 10 minutes of hollering!
Montreal Expos 1969-2004 Forever Proud Lets Keep The Dream Alive |
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MatC
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 3 on 10/10/2004 7:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by TRIBEFAN
the older ones that look like the one you drew, have a big ol battery box in em, and are totally independant, the battery runs down after 10 minutes of hollering!
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Yeah, I don't recall any wires running to the box, so it's entirely possible that it's just a battery-operated thing. I considered just pushing the door open and preparing to flee to a different floor if the alarm went off, but I was waiting for some friends and I didn't want to hang around the hotel if I set off the alarm. I didn't see any cameras nearby, so I assume the worst that would happen would be that a guest would call the front desk, someone would come up, look around to see if anyone had gotten out on the roof, and then just re-set the device.
If I do push the door and the alarm does go off, my plan was to sprint down a couple floors, enter that floor calmly, walk to the elevator, take it down to the 2nd floor, take the opposite stairwell down to the first floor, and then calmly exit the building as if nothing happened. That way if they DO have hidden security cameras (it's a big hotel chain, so it's safe to assume that they might) they won't see me come flying out of the top floor moments after an alarm is triggered. In Ninj's treatise on how to get into hotel pools, he suggests not going directly to the location you're seeking, since that will make you stand out if you're being observed. I assume the same goes for avoiding attention after doing something stupid like tripping the alarm on a door that says it has an alarm.  Who would YOU suspect, after all -- the guy sprinting for the nearest exit or the one walking slowly out the front door?
-- Mat
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 4 on 10/10/2004 9:47 PM >
| | | | If the latch isn't in and there's no obvious magnets, then the alarm won't sound by just pusing the door open. We have these exact doors in the dorms as emergency exits, they claim to be locked and alamred but they're almost never engaged. We used them as shortcuts until the residence department finally remembered how to actually lock them.
So yeah, just push on the door itself, not the bar or the alarm box, and the door should open (unless there's another lock).
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 5 on 10/10/2004 10:17 PM >
| | | | http://www.securit...-usa.com/detex.htm
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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rogerneon
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Gender: Male
| |  |  | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 6 on 10/10/2004 11:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by TRIBEFAN
the older ones that look like the one you drew, have a big ol battery box in em, and are totally independant, the battery runs down after 10 minutes of hollering!
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Well, the company I work for owns a building next door with several of these alarms in it. They work as others have described... if the door is not locked, then you can just push or pull the door open without activating the alarm. Oddly, they require a different key depending on which side of the door you're on.
However, I will say that on one occasion of the alarms was accidentally tripped and it went off like a banshee, and kept going, and going, and GOING. The physical plant manager was gone, as well as my own supervisor, and it took me at least 30 minutes to find a key that would shut the blasted thing off. During that whole time period the sound volume did not diminish one bit.
When the physical plant manager came in, I asked if the batteries would have to be replaced or recharged, and he said that they would not. Go figure...
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Drie
Rat-Hole Chic
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Gender: Female
bringing it back.
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 7 on 10/11/2004 2:56 AM >
| | | | I know just what you mean, and you can disable it really easily. It's held together, most likely, by philips head screws. It (again, most likely) runs on a 9v battery. Unscrew the box part (the sound emitter)on the handle (CAREFULLY!), take out the battery, and you are in. I've had a few run ins with these. as long as you have time to take it apart, you're good.
Drie - www.synestheticlight.com
"In the absence of the living, there still exists a life." |
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Viper
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Gender: Male
Trespassing On!
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 8 on 10/11/2004 3:57 AM >
|  | | | Just make sure you can get back out in case the door is locked or locks from the other side. Also, there might be an alarm panel (fire/security/etc.) with a layout of the hotel, somewhere in an inconspicuous place in say the lobby, that might show the door as being alarmed.
Of course there is really only one way to find out if it's alarmed. If it goes off just make it look like an accident and walk away calmly.
Earth, the world's most dangerous planet!
"The will to do, the soul to dare." -Sir Walter Scott |
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ofberenonehand
Location: Minn-e-snow-ta
"Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve."
| | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 9 on 10/11/2004 5:05 AM >
| | | | We used to have one of these doors at a store I worked at. It was the primary entrance and exit for employees. As long as it was unlocked we could enter and exit as we pleased. I also don't thinkit went off if the door was unlocked even if you did push the bar, though I never had the guts to try it. There were a few times where people were too lazy to go out the main door after hours (emergency door was locked after hours) and they would just go out the emergency door. The alarm would sound, but shut itself off after 5 or 10 minutes. No other reprocussions.
Also the RF warning sign seems worrisome. I can't imagine they are REALLY strong on a hotel roof, but if common sense eludes you, stay some distance from any radio equipment.
"That's What Government Is For; To Get In A Man's Way" -Mal |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 10 on 10/11/2004 5:58 AM >
| | | | The RF warning is nothing to me. I have one of those stickers on my snowboard. I used to project manage work on microwave transmitters and those stickers are mandated.
If you are concerned, keep your distance from the antennas themselves and limit your exposure. With the power that most cellular/microwave operatesa t your would have to stand still there in front of the antenna for a long time to have any damage.
Now if you climb inside one of the big dishes and fall asleep for the night, you may be not doing so well by morning.
If it is a FM radio station, make sure you do not touch any towers or the like. But they rarely install those on buildings. If the RF danger was so bad, wouldn;t the ppl on the top floor of the hotel get injured somehow? RF goes through tar and even cement pretty well. Rebar and sheet metal are another matter but glass is essentially transparent to RF.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 11 on 10/11/2004 6:08 AM >
| | | | Mat; here's an idea ; ask the clerk if you went on the roof , would the alarm sound? If she says yes do it anyway and don't run awy.Stand tall Mat.
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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MatC
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 12 on 10/11/2004 12:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by 'Dukes
Mat; here's an idea ; ask the clerk if you went on the roof , would the alarm sound? If she says yes do it anyway and don't run awy.Stand tall Mat.
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'Dukes, you are just a fountain of good ideas, aren't you?
In all seriousness, thanks everyone for the advice and ideas. I can stop by this place after work today and at least take some pics of the door and maybe head out onto the roof itself if the latch is still in the same position as it was before. (It could very well have been left that way accidentally, or maybe [as a lot of people have reported] it gets left that way all the time and they rely on the signs to stop hotel guests who don't want to set off the alarm.)
Results to come later!
-- Mat
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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MatC
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 13 on 10/11/2004 10:42 PM >
| | | | Bastards!
The picture says it all:
Yep, sometime between Friday and today, the latch got closed. This proves the UE lesson of the week: if you see lax security, cautiously take advantage of it while you can because it may not always be that way.
In order for this thread to be useful to anyone else who wants to learn about this topic, I'll post my actual pictures of the door, so they don't have to make do with my crappy Paint drawings.
Also, Drie -- note the new-and-improved method of keeping people with screwdrivers from being able to bypass the door. Damn keylocks! I checked around the whole box -- not a single screw visible, it's all encased in a locked box.
-- Mat
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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Servo
| | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 14 on 10/11/2004 10:48 PM >
| | | | Well, as far as those signs go, I've stood by one for several minutes before and not been cooked. Admittedly though, I was under the transmitter, not next to it.
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 15 on 10/11/2004 11:07 PM >
| | | | Mat, what I meant was "just play dumb".
Anyway, do you suppose that sign is just for liability purposes in case some dummy develops nut cancer ten years down the road? Or is it an FCC requirement? I forgot that tall buildings are usually home to microwave transmitters, e.t.c..
[last edit 10/11/2004 11:07 PM by 'Dukes - edited 1 times]
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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MatC
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 16 on 10/11/2004 11:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by 'Dukes
Anyway, do you suppose that sign is just for liability purposes in case some dummy develops nut cancer ten years down the road? Or is it an FCC requirement? I forgot that tall buildings are usually home to microwave transmitters, e.t.c..
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I suspect that it is federal law that buildings with units of more than X amount of power have to mount signs and (possibly) take reasonable precautions to keep people away from the source of radiation. The sign itself actually states at the bottom that it's posted in accordance with FCC rules on emissions, so it's probably mandated somewhere.
And, yeah, I don't imagine it's dangerous short-term. Rev. Skaught makes a good point about the people in the top floor hotel rooms not being in any danger. So, yeah, it's probably best not to hold a four-hour tailgate party up there and use the antenna as the hotdog cooker, but it would probably be okay to go up and have a look around.
Or it would be if the door were open. Phooey... 
-- Mat
[last edit 10/11/2004 11:42 PM by MatC - edited 1 times]
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| | | Re: "Alarm Will Sound" Flat Bar Doors
<Reply # 17 on 10/11/2004 11:51 PM >
| | | | When "radar ranges" first came out, they didn't have any safety precautions. In other words you could open the door, reach in and turn you food while the thing was in operation!
I've also heard stories about Russiann soldiers in Siberia who would climb the tower while on watch, and curl up next to the transmitter because "it was warm"! I'ts warm all right!
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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