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UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Recommended geiger counters? (Viewed 386 times)
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Recommended geiger counters?
< on 2/3/2014 8:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I have a few locations that I want to get to, but there is a potential risk for exposure to higher than normal levels of radiation.. Now I have been looking around and these things ain't cheap.

I found one for 200 dollars but read some of the reviews and they compare it to a toy. I know a few of you have been to Chernobyl and probably have used one of these or maybe own one. Any brands that worked for you that wont break the bank too much?



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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 1 on 2/3/2014 11:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I use them on a weekly basis at work for some of the reactions we do. The problem with getting anything under professional grade is that they probably arent calibrated correctly or need to get calibrated by the manufacturer regularly which is expensive. If the calibration is out of whack, then then is no way to tell anything from them and it would be just as much of a waste as spending the money on the good stuff. What kind of radiation are we talking about here anyway; alpha, beta, gamma? Do you know the element emitting the radiation? The half-life? All of these things are important to consider.

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 2 on 2/3/2014 11:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Just take some Rad-X before you go in. You'll be straight.
[last edit 2/3/2014 11:13 PM by DSomms - edited 1 times]

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 3 on 2/4/2014 1:26 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I suppose you live in California

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 4 on 2/4/2014 5:57 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Send4Help
I use them on a weekly basis at work for some of the reactions we do. The problem with getting anything under professional grade is that they probably arent calibrated correctly or need to get calibrated by the manufacturer regularly which is expensive. If the calibration is out of whack, then then is no way to tell anything from them and it would be just as much of a waste as spending the money on the good stuff. What kind of radiation are we talking about here anyway; alpha, beta, gamma? Do you know the element emitting the radiation? The half-life? All of these things are important to consider.



I can understand that. The place is an old chemical refinery that was one of the largest producers of uranium-fluoride during the Manhattan Project, 4000 pounds in total. Also high levels of hydrofluric acid. Now an investigation was done deeming it safe, but dangerous if exposed for 20-30 years excluding some "hot zones." I don't want to take my chances.

Second is a chemical burial ground that a school was built on accidentally.. Resulting in widespread cancer and the closure of the high school. I'm guessing that it would be Uranium-238, giving it a half life of 4.468 billion years. lol.



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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 5 on 2/4/2014 6:57 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 6 on 2/4/2014 7:02 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mister Owl



I can understand that. The place is an old chemical refinery that was one of the largest producers of uranium-fluoride during the Manhattan Project, 4000 pounds in total. Also high levels of hydrofluric acid. Now an investigation was done deeming it safe, but dangerous if exposed for 20-30 years excluding some "hot zones." I don't want to take my chances.

Second is a chemical burial ground that a school was built on accidentally.. Resulting in widespread cancer and the closure of the high school. I'm guessing that it would be Uranium-238, giving it a half life of 4.468 billion years. lol.


What's this highschool you speak of?

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 7 on 2/4/2014 10:09 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I know hospital personal sometimes use badges that will change color if they are exposed to an unhealthy amount or radiation. You might look into a small detector like that as opposed to an actual Geiger counter, unless you intend to take your time and actually sweep the place with your Geiger counter as you explore....

Just don't eat or drink inside, if your worried about alpha/beta/gamma particles. And possibly check your clothing and gear for radioactive material before you get back into your vehicle to leave, bring a change of clothes if you find anything crazy. From what I've read, Uranium gives off Alpha particles, so it won't effect you unless the Uranium dust is actually ON you, or on things you eat or drink.

Personally, I would be much more concerned about contacting Hydrofluoric Acid acid. >>>>http://www.science...php?msdsId=9924296

Regardless. Wear a dust mask. Preferably an asbestos rated respirator, not the cheap dust-masks.
[last edit 2/4/2014 10:19 AM by theshadow_razor - edited 1 times]

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 8 on 2/4/2014 5:05 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mister Owl



I think you are speaking of Uranium hexafluoride (UF6) since Uranium Fluoride isnt a thing Presuming that 95% of the UF6 has been removed and there are no storage containers left in the area, that brings most of the overall hazards down. However, the thing that works against your safety is that when the residual UF6 is exposed to water (be it liquid or vapor), it reacts with the moisture to produce UO2F2 (uranyl fluoride), and HF (hydrogen fluoride).

Uranyl Fluoride is a white solid that can stick to your clothing, can be brought into your body by nose, mouth, ears, etc... Hydrogen Fluoride is a gas with no odor or color that you can breath in or absorb in. Both of these are EXTREMELY toxic and can cross the skin-tissue-blood barrier.

The radiation would be the lesser of your worries in this situation. You should invest more money in getting full body protection, a high grade filter set, and you should have a decon shower ready in a safe location before you enter you car or anything you dont want to get contaminated. Even your camera should have a cover.

All this is pending that there IS actual contamination there, but better to be safe than sorry. The chemistry doesnt lie.

The Durango '95 purred away a real horrowshow - a nice, warm vibraty feeling all through your guttiwuts. And soon it was trees and dark, my brothers, with real country dark.
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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 9 on 2/4/2014 9:00 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Send4Help


I think you are speaking of Uranium hexafluoride (UF6) since Uranium Fluoride isnt a thing Presuming that 95% of the UF6 has been removed and there are no storage containers left in the area, that brings most of the overall hazards down. However, the thing that works against your safety is that when the residual UF6 is exposed to water (be it liquid or vapor), it reacts with the moisture to produce UO2F2 (uranyl fluoride), and HF (hydrogen fluoride).

Uranyl Fluoride is a white solid that can stick to your clothing, can be brought into your body by nose, mouth, ears, etc... Hydrogen Fluoride is a gas with no odor or color that you can breath in or absorb in. Both of these are EXTREMELY toxic and can cross the skin-tissue-blood barrier.

The radiation would be the lesser of your worries in this situation. You should invest more money in getting full body protection, a high grade filter set, and you should have a decon shower ready in a safe location before you enter you car or anything you dont want to get contaminated. Even your camera should have a cover.

All this is pending that there IS actual contamination there, but better to be safe than sorry. The chemistry doesnt lie.



Wow. You my friend are a wealth of chemistry knowledge! Thanks for the insight. Looks like I might be bumping that location a bit back on the list knowing that now. Haha.



Send4Help 


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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 10 on 2/4/2014 9:43 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mister Owl
Wow. You my friend are a wealth of chemistry knowledge! Thanks for the insight. Looks like I might be bumping that location a bit back on the list knowing that now. Haha.




I am not saying to bump the location, just take proper protection with you and be smart. Then again, I am also the guy who brings thermite to UE meets, so maybe smart isnt my skill set

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 11 on 2/4/2014 9:44 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Send4Help



Then again, I am also the guy who brings thermite to UE meets, so maybe smart isnt my skill set


I'm telling.

"When it rains, just find bigger drains."
Send4Help 


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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 12 on 2/4/2014 9:48 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by relik
I'm telling.




I have already replaced your pillow stuffing with thermite on a remote trigger... You have been warned relik.

The Durango '95 purred away a real horrowshow - a nice, warm vibraty feeling all through your guttiwuts. And soon it was trees and dark, my brothers, with real country dark.
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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 13 on 2/4/2014 10:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Send4Help
I am also the guy who brings thermite to UE meets


We should be friends.

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 14 on 2/4/2014 11:23 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by theshadow_razor
I know hospital personal sometimes use badges that will change color if they are exposed to an unhealthy amount or radiation. You might look into a small detector like that as opposed to an actual Geiger counter, unless you intend to take your time and actually sweep the place with your Geiger counter as you explore....

Just don't eat or drink inside, if your worried about alpha/beta/gamma particles. And possibly check your clothing and gear for radioactive material before you get back into your vehicle to leave, bring a change of clothes if you find anything crazy. From what I've read, Uranium gives off Alpha particles, so it won't effect you unless the Uranium dust is actually ON you, or on things you eat or drink.

Personally, I would be much more concerned about contacting Hydrofluoric Acid acid. >>>>http://www.science...php?msdsId=9924296

Regardless. Wear a dust mask. Preferably an asbestos rated respirator, not the cheap dust-masks.


those badges are not like you think it doesn't change color instantly it does so over a period of time.

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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 15 on 2/5/2014 2:35 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Awh c'mon, who doesn't love a little thermite?



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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 16 on 2/9/2014 1:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Evilbunny


those badges are not like you think it doesn't change color instantly it does so over a period of time.


A dosimetry badge is a one-color piece of camera film paper that only reacts to turn dark when exposed to higher-energy particles. They will change colors "before your eyes" in a very high-dose environment. The ones I have seen are built to expose at a low dose at one end and a high dose at the other. A little scale/ruler appropriate for the particular badge will tell you the estimated dose.

Their intended use is for people in possible-exposure areas to turn in their badges at the end of the shift and say "All's well" or "Oh crap." They should still be matched to the particle type, as a given one will probably over- or under-count particle counts depending on the energy levels. It is certainly more accurate than trying to smell the radiation before it gets you.

The Chernobyl firefighters say said they had a strong metallic taste in their mouth while inside the containment structure or on the roof. That was the largest group of people we had in a high-radiation environment. Send4Help can tell us if there really is a 'lethal line' across the high-radiation badges to tell you that you are already probably dead.
[last edit 2/9/2014 1:14 PM by AnAppleSnail - edited 1 times]

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Send4Help 


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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 17 on 2/9/2014 6:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by AnAppleSnail



Depends on the type of badge. The hospital/research areas I work in they use these types:



These are closed film emulsion badge/ring that you cant read yourself. These have to be developed by an instrument. Basically useless for the monitoring you are trying to do.

If you want monitoring in real time without a counter you need a dosimeter badge like these:



The center strip will chance color the longer it is exposed. The problem with these is that if you hit a spike in one room and they max out they are already spent. Once they start to change color, they do not change back. Basically, they only tell you the highest level you were exposed to, not "active" monitoring. The badge system is really only designed for record keeping of exposure, not keeping you safe while in the field. You would not see a nuclear scientist using one of these to keep them safe as a substitute for a counter.

To answer the question about the "lethal line" they do not have that on any that I know of. There are too many variables to be able for a simple system to be able to tell that. Goes back to once they max out there is no way to tell how long the exposure was or how much radiation you received at a lower level.

The Durango '95 purred away a real horrowshow - a nice, warm vibraty feeling all through your guttiwuts. And soon it was trees and dark, my brothers, with real country dark.
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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 18 on 2/9/2014 8:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by AnAppleSnail


A dosimetry badge is a one-color piece of camera film paper that only reacts to turn dark when exposed to higher-energy particles. They will change colors "before your eyes" in a very high-dose environment. The ones I have seen are built to expose at a low dose at one end and a high dose at the other. A little scale/ruler appropriate for the particular badge will tell you the estimated dose.

Their intended use is for people in possible-exposure areas to turn in their badges at the end of the shift and say "All's well" or "Oh crap." They should still be matched to the particle type, as a given one will probably over- or under-count particle counts depending on the energy levels. It is certainly more accurate than trying to smell the radiation before it gets you.

The Chernobyl firefighters say said they had a strong metallic taste in their mouth while inside the containment structure or on the roof. That was the largest group of people we had in a high-radiation environment. Send4Help can tell us if there really is a 'lethal line' across the high-radiation badges to tell you that you are already probably dead.


That is a different badge than what I am talking about but thanks.

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Kuroneko 


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Re: Recommended geiger counters?
<Reply # 19 on 2/11/2014 2:02 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mister Owl
I have a few locations that I want to get to, but there is a potential risk for exposure to higher than normal levels of radiation.. Now I have been looking around and these things ain't cheap.

I found one for 200 dollars but read some of the reviews and they compare it to a toy. I know a few of you have been to Chernobyl and probably have used one of these or maybe own one. Any brands that worked for you that wont break the bank too much?


Unless you are going into a known contamination zone - Prypiat or Dai-Ichi - a low-cost over-the-counter field meter would be fine. I've used a number of devices, but find the SE Monitor 4 a viable, hand-held device (as used here in Namie-shi):



Note you should have a real-time, not to-be-developed-after system regardless. You can buy a number of low-cost devices with moderate accuracy on-line. Neko.

UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Recommended geiger counters? (Viewed 386 times)



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