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 HolyJesusILoveCreed
  
Member has passed away. Account closed out of respect.
Location: MN
Gender: Male
"So-called Urban Explorer"
 |  |  |  |  | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 20 on 6/27/2004 1:40 AM >
|  | | | Posted by Ferret
I know some of the messages here have been rather forceful, but the thing to bear in mind is that some of us have seen people die after similar levels of exertion, and with similar levels of physical fitness to you. We are expressing our concern.
Ultimately, there are only three possible outcomes. First (and by far, most likely) it was nothing, but let a doctor determine that. Second, you have had some form of mild cardiovascular incident brought on by the combined dircumstances (physical exertion and fatigue), but again, let a doctor decide. Third, you are lucky to have discovered (and survived) that you have a previously undiagnosed heart condition that, left untreated, would eventually kill you, but can now be properly treated by a doctor (least likely, but most serious - this is what caused the death of the person I knew). Unfortunately, you won't know which of the three it is util you've seen a doctor.
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I didnt mean to sound like an ass, but originally I was looking for a response to see if anyone knew what the hell this was or if they had expierieced this wierd noise in tunnels or enclosed spaces, not everyone and the dad saying "go to the doctor", I understand the reason for everyones concern and I appreciate it, and hell, im going to get it checked out becuase so many people said so(hopefully no underlying heart problems), but I guess its just not what I wanted to hear nor was looking for
[last edit 6/27/2004 1:44 AM by HolyJesusILoveCreed - edited 1 times]
Now that I have found someone
I'm feeling more alone
Than I ever have before |
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Bizzybear
Nobler Donor
Location: Lake George, New York
Gender: Female
Doesn't play well with others
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 22 on 6/27/2004 3:23 AM >
| | | | Perhaps next time you should state what kind of response you are looking for instead of expecting people to read your mind. That way you won't need to get angry.
http://sybilsden.com/bizzybear/main.html[/ur |
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LearnedHand
Gender: Male
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 23 on 6/27/2004 4:14 AM >
| | | | Perhaps related:
I'm 18 and in pretty good shape. Athlete etc... Last summer during my first physical w/ a new doctor I received my very first EKG. He explained this was necessary if he was going to clear me to play varsity level sports. I was *exteremly* anxious because I get very uncomfortable in doctor's offices. After the EKG, the doctor said it appeared a bit irregular and he needed to send it off to a cardiologist for analysis. Later that day I get a phone call saying I need to check into the hospital immediately for a heart ultrasound and a chest x-ray. Worried sick, I went to the hospital the next day after a lot of praying and it turned out to be a whole lot of nothing. The technician administering the ultrasound remarked that it's not uncommon for young adults and adolescents who are very physically active to have increased electrical activity in their hearts. Sometimes it can cause palpitations or increased heart rates etc. I was diagnosed with a very minor, totally innocuous "murmur".
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Wabbit
Location: Twin cities, Minnesota
Gender: Male
Go Silly Rabbit!
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 24 on 6/27/2004 4:25 AM >
| | | | Oh my fucking god. It wasn't that loud. He was at the top of a manhole ladder, I'de say his chest was like 8 feet above me. My fuckin heart was pounding too. We started at the dual manholes.... chilled at the cave for an hour or more. Then continued on pretty much non-stop past the next manhole... around like 30 corners, up and down, through the corkscrew, past a sanitary connection and finished up at the tilt-a-whirl. Then we got to the third manhole. We were so fuckin beat.... It felt like we just crouch walked for about 20 miles. Don't stress about it. I figured at the time it was just becasue of the shape of the manhole. How it curved towards the top to make a flattened dome, with no place for the sound to go but towards me at the bottom.
By the way... There was a dip in the level of the tunnel, and it was flooded, and as tired as we were, decided that was the end of the line (didn't wanna fuk up the sneakers). Does this tunnel just keep going for ever, and loop around, or what? I wana go back, but... shit after a couple hours, it aint even fun anymore.
[last edit 6/27/2004 4:29 AM by Wabbit - edited 1 times]
-wabs |
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HolyJesusILoveCreed
Member has passed away. Account closed out of respect.
Location: MN
Gender: Male
"So-called Urban Explorer"
| | | | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 25 on 6/27/2004 4:31 AM >
| | | | robdobi and bizzybear, sorry but you guys are kinda dicks, I dont understand why you need to be like that, and btw I wasnt angry at all with any of the previous responses, I was just glad someone said something else besides "go to the doctor"
and next time, please if your going to post something like that, just dont post it at all, keep it to yourself
Now that I have found someone
I'm feeling more alone
Than I ever have before |
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J Marcs
Location: Ohio
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 26 on 6/27/2004 5:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chainsaw
Seriously, no, seriously?
Do you even know what a stroke is?
Might as well say "go to church and take the sacrement" because you've just made a medical assesment with no real information and come to a conclusion based on your opinion and zero facts.
Look, if you're going to provide some kind of medical advice to another person you should have a vague idea of what you're talking about.
The fact of the matter is if he has a heart defect he might drop dead in line at the bank - why give up UE? I'd rather die underground than in the lobby of FirstBank.
Sure, it seems odd that his hearbeat was that loud - but his body was under extreme stress and he was in a very strange place acousticly. Jumping to the conclusion that there is ANYTHING wrong with him is just plain stupid.
If I was on scene as an EMT and this occured I'd give him a few minutes to relax, take his BP/HR and listen to his heart for regularity. I'd make sure he was well hydrated and send him on home for a good nights sleep. Assuming of course BP/HR were acceptable. I would also advise discussing the situation with a doctor to see if further tests may be necessary.
Going to a doctor is a good idea- but why don't you let the fucking MD decide how many leads to put on the EKG, m'kay? This incident may be an indicaiton that you have some kind of issue with your heart. Stop by a clinic, get your vitals checked by an EXPERT.
If you're concerned or the expert recommends seeing someone about it then do it. But just because Jo Nobody says you need a 12 lead EKG test doesn't mean you need a 12 lead EKG test. PhD's are hard to get on purpose. You should really let the doctor that actually examines you determine what tests are or are not necessary.
Unless you've been trained giving othe people medical advice is a stpuid, stupid thing to do. If you aren't really trained the only advice you should give when something sounds bad to you is "see a doctor" or "call an ambulance". Speculation about what could be wrong with them only spreads folklore and bad information. "Time is muscle lost" but an untrained idiot planting the idea in someones head to take a possibly unnecessary test is a waste of time and resources.
I have been trained and guess what my advice is - get your vitals checked - see a doctor.
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Did you even notice I responded in form of Haiku poem? It was more of a glib joke than actual advice. Don't be an ass. I am a paramedic and the EMS supervisor for my service. I'd write your ass up so fast if you were on duty and "sat there to let him get air". Your course of treatment was not only inappropriate, but neglectful. If he was in an enclosed space and had this loud heart beat symptom, he needs to see his an MD. Sending him on his way would be a major liability. The whole thing sounded like a CO poisoning or similar to me. I don't care what his vitals are, transport to a definitive care facility would be indicated (of course he can refuse). The MD will then order what ever tests HE/SHE thinks are approp. My 12 lead suggestion was just a guess (and a rhyme) as to one of many things that may be looked into. If you think a 3 line poem was formal medical advice---- get a clue. Even if he took it seriously and went and told a Doc he wanted a 12 lead, the Doc doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want. The bottom line remains---This guy should be checked by an MD.
But since this seemed to offend the Basic EMT (who had such a great understanding of the run----ha)... I'll explain further--The reason a physician may wish to see a 12 lead EKG (not a costly procedure), is it shows more views of the heart than a 3 lead. If there is damage present, it may indicate a more serious situation. While most ambulances have a choice between 3 and 12 lead EKGs, most MDs offices only have a 12 lead. And they don't consider the 3 lead to be "diagnostic". If this fellow goes to his family MD like he should, he will be asked the full battery of questions, and if needed given tests. The correct medical advice on scene would read like this----
"We aren't sure what caused your symptoms. The fact that you were exerting yourself in a confined space prior to this is concerning to us. We feel the best course of action is to be transported to the ER and evaluated." If he refused, he would need to sign AMA, and I would encourage him to see an MD ASAP.
Chainsaw, you need to go to your EMS supervisor or Medical director and have a little continuing education on this. This is not a treat and release pt. Your assessment was dangerous.
John M
EMT-P
[last edit 6/27/2004 5:32 PM by J Marcs - edited 2 times]
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TurboZutek
 
King Dick
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male
Giant octo-penised rapephant
| |  | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 27 on 6/27/2004 5:36 PM >
| | | | If you think you may have a heart problem I suggest this:
See a doctor. But until you DO see a doctor take two aspirins a day.
Apirin can ward off a heart attack or make a mild heart attack a good deal less of a problem.
Also, don't call anyone a dick please - especially not robdobi and bizzybear as in clinical trials they have proved to be far and away - not dicks.
That is all.
Chris...
We all had ostriches. My dad had an ostrich farm! I remember one day someone came in and said the high altitude bombing of Kosovo had been a limited success, so we all went out and celebrated… by killing an ostrich and boiling it in kiwi fruit. |
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HolyJesusILoveCreed
Member has passed away. Account closed out of respect.
Location: MN
Gender: Male
"So-called Urban Explorer"
| | | | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 28 on 6/27/2004 6:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by turbozutek
Also, don't call anyone a dick please - especially not robdobi and bizzybear as in clinical trials they have proved to be far and away - not dicks.
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right so they were being nice, yeah, hmmm.... I must have missed something
Now that I have found someone
I'm feeling more alone
Than I ever have before |
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Scaggs
 
Gender: Male
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 29 on 6/27/2004 7:40 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chainsaw
Do you even know what a stroke is?
-I have diabetes, high blood pressure, and an abnormally active liver. Believe me when I say that I have done the research on this. I don't want to go to dialysis someday. Ass. |
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Bizzybear
Nobler Donor
Location: Lake George, New York
Gender: Female
Doesn't play well with others
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 30 on 6/27/2004 8:21 PM >
| | | | "right so they were being nice, yeah, hmmm.... I must have missed something"
Actually I was trying to be nice, I was just pointing out the obvious-that you didn't really state a reason for your thread. I thought the responses you were getting were the ones you were looking for, as did everyone else apparently because those were the only types of responses that were in the thread. I guess the word "fucking" in one of your responses just threw me and robdobi off guard. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 
http://sybilsden.com/bizzybear/main.html[/ur |
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The Hitman's Daughter
Account Closed
Location: ottawa, canada
Gender: Female
hot pavement.
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 31 on 6/27/2004 8:47 PM >
| | | | biz and rob are decent people. you drop a bomb like this:
| Im not sure what condition we were in, but I'll just say fatigued and possible acute carbon dioxide asphyxiation from being in bad air/sanitary sewer air for too long; we were very weak, lightheaded, light headaches, not making much sense speaking wise, couldnt think the greatest, all of which could have been attributed to crouched over too long and standing up too fast, or carbon dioxide, or just fatiqued.... not sure.... |
and you're surprised when people express concern? Nobody was trying to be mean or tell you what to do, they were just concerned. Explorers look out for eachother's safety.
richellesart.com
From now on and until the end of time, "Hip To Be Square" will conjure images of bloody bodies being hacked apart with axes.
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 32 on 6/27/2004 9:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by J Marcs
Did you even notice I responded in form of Haiku poem? It was more of a glib joke than actual advice. Don't be an ass. I am a paramedic and the EMS supervisor for my service.
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Well, let's take a little poll - who here wants an EMT who provides advice in haiku and who wants an EMT who provides advice with logic.
The whole thing sounded like a CO poisoning or similar to me.
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Here are common symptoms of CO poising: (i've bolded the ones reported)
Headache
Dizziness
Nausea
Flulike symptoms, fatigue
Shortness of breath on exertion
Impaired judgment
Chest pain
Confusion
Depression
Hallucinations
Agitation
Vomiting
Abdominal pain
Drowsiness
Visual changes
Fainting
Seizure
Memory and walking problems
Here's their list of symptoms they presented:
Im not sure what condition we were in, but I'll just say fatigued and possible acute carbon dioxide asphyxiation from being in bad air/sanitary sewer air for too long; we were very weak, lightheaded, light headaches, not making much sense speaking wise, couldnt think the greatest, all of which could have been attributed to crouched over too long and standing up too fast, or carbon dioxide, or just fatiqued.... not sure....
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I would probably get in trouble for listing all the possible problems it could be that meet those same very conditions...But I've had orgasms that have left me in this condition.
Did you ever consider that these effects could be caused by drugs, alcohol or physical exertion?
Did you ever stop to think that giving the patient a moment so you can review their coordination and responses and taking their vital signs may be a good way to screen what could very well be nothing more than extreme physical exertion or something other than CO poisining?
He's a young guy in good physical shape - hell I've seen guys playing football in worse shape than this on a doctors signout.
Yeah, you sound like a Sup. Do they actually pay you a commision on unnecessary transport? This is a good part of why I quit. It's not about what the patient needs but what you can get sued for.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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Wabbit
Location: Twin cities, Minnesota
Gender: Male
Go Silly Rabbit!
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 33 on 6/27/2004 10:19 PM >
| | | | d_wrex - The air was fine in there. Dont wory about it. We were just exhausted.
-wabs |
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HolyJesusILoveCreed
Member has passed away. Account closed out of respect.
Location: MN
Gender: Male
"So-called Urban Explorer"
| | | | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 34 on 6/27/2004 10:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Bizzybear
"right so they were being nice, yeah, hmmm.... I must have missed something"
Actually I was trying to be nice, I was just pointing out the obvious-that you didn't really state a reason for your thread. I thought the responses you were getting were the ones you were looking for, as did everyone else apparently because those were the only types of responses that were in the thread. I guess the word "fucking" in one of your responses just threw me and robdobi off guard. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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sorry, I thought you were being mean spirited, I hate trying to decipher the intent of things said on the internet
and urban I agree with you, we were just hella tired
Now that I have found someone
I'm feeling more alone
Than I ever have before |
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J Marcs
Location: Ohio
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 35 on 6/28/2004 12:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by Chainsaw
Well, let's take a little poll - who here wants an EMT who provides advice in haiku and who wants an EMT who provides advice with logic.
Here are common symptoms of CO poising: (i've bolded the ones reported)
Headache
Dizziness
Nausea
Flulike symptoms, fatigue
Shortness of breath on exertion
Impaired judgment
Chest pain
Confusion
Depression
Hallucinations
Agitation
Vomiting
Abdominal pain
Drowsiness
Visual changes
Fainting
Seizure
Memory and walking problems
Here's their list of symptoms they presented:
I would probably get in trouble for listing all the possible problems it could be that meet those same very conditions...But I've had orgasms that have left me in this condition.
Did you ever consider that these effects could be caused by drugs, alcohol or physical exertion?
Did you ever stop to think that giving the patient a moment so you can review their coordination and responses and taking their vital signs may be a good way to screen what could very well be nothing more than extreme physical exertion or something other than CO poisining?
He's a young guy in good physical shape - hell I've seen guys playing football in worse shape than this on a doctors signout.
Yeah, you sound like a Sup. Do they actually pay you a commision on unnecessary transport? This is a good part of why I quit. It's not about what the patient needs but what you can get sued for.
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His symptoms could be caused by any number of things. To say its CO is as bad as to say its fatigue. I wasn't trying to say what it was, I was trying to point out how many things it could bhe. There are too many variables for me to make a good guess. That's my point. He needs evaluated after an incident like that. We can guess all day, or he get checked by an MD. At the end of the day my guess and your guess mean nothing, the emphasis should be on getting him checked out period.
The poem was poking fun at all the advice he had gotten.... it was all over the place, when all it needed to say was-- see a doctor. I didn't figure anyone was going to think it was an actual piece of advice.... lol
Once again, get a clue. When it comes to anything like this, there is no such thing as an unnecessary transport. Open a med ch or med phone and talk to an MD on a run like that. They will always suggest he come in for an eval. They may say a POV is fine, but they'll want him directly there. I could give a crap who transports him. He can go by car or taxi if he wants. It's his choice.... but we have an obligation to caution him on the risks of ignoring these symptoms. This debate has become pointless. On one hand you seem concerned that I trivialized his concern with a poem/joke, and on the other you are blowing off the seriousness of his possible situation. It's good you gave up EMS, you were burnt. It's not about liability, its about safe vs. sorry. Try not being a lazy 1/2 assed EMT for once and being a pt advocate, even if you end up transporting a noncritical pt who you feel is just exhausted (which is likely). Forget liability, how would you feel if you told the pt he was fine and to go about his business, then heard another crew code him 30 minutes later? Really? Would you feel bad? Do you think you helped him fuly understand the decision he was making? Forget the lawsuit at that point. Your inability to educate the pt of the risks cost him his life. Don't insult yourself by pretending that's only a legal issue.
We disagree on his course of treatment. I would be much more cautious than you, but I have been trained in a different system and to a higher level. Debating his care won't help him any.
John
[last edit 6/28/2004 12:02 AM by J Marcs - edited 1 times]
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SnArF
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 36 on 6/28/2004 3:19 AM >
| | | | Man, this sounds really serious. I can hear my heartbeat all the time, but only when I'm stoned. Anyway, I'm a pro-B EMT doing some classes, and as far as I know, they haven't told us much on problems like this, it sounds like more of something the fire department would be better trained for.
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 37 on 6/28/2004 1:24 PM >
| | | | Okay, we've reached a consenus J Marcs.
We agree that you are applying a higher level of caution than I would in this scenario.
We both agree advisement of treatment is appropriate just at different levels. I would prefer to have a better obs before making a suggestion on treatment, you agree a closer ob may change your course of action.
When I was working shifts I was whole-heatedly committed and never did anything half assed. I did exactly what I was supposed to and was very good at my job. I did burn out, hardcore. Between the people that couldn't take responsibility for themselves and wasted the communities EMS resources and the management of the particular company I worked for being more committed to billing trips than actually making decisions of what was best for the patient.
Just as I would feel bad if we got a callout 30 minutes later on the same person having seizures that I had checked and released - I think you would feel just as bad if your unit was busy transporting someone not really injured and had your response delayed where immediate treatment could have saved a life.
I really do think a decent ob on this guy would have revealed a case of fatigue and wiped out any concern on CO poisining. I did forget to mention the 100% o2 I would have adminstered during the sit down period. If it were readily available I'd mask him first, then ob. I wouldn't just leave him sitting by himself by the side of the road for 10-20 minutes before I did anything with him. If that's the impression you got no wonder you were so quick to jump my ass.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for the men and women of EMS, police and fire - no doubt about that - you are a dedicated group of individuals that sacrifice themselves for the good of the community. More than most people really understand. I do have issues with a lot of the policies and legal issues used to govern your actions though. I also have issues with the community at large and how it abuses these services.
I still carry a decent kit in my car and make myself available in situations where EMS has not yet responded. I keep myself prepared to respond to the needs of my family and friends, but I don't try to pass myself off as EMS and would always call in properly equipped and trained EMS in a situation I wasn't 100% confident handling myself. I always be sure to tell people I *WAS* an EMT and I just passed the decade mark since I was last certified.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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um...Vince
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 38 on 6/28/2004 4:03 PM >
| | | | While the medical check is, of course, sound advice, I think the acoustics of the situation may hold some other possibilities.
If your pulse was really pounding, and you weren't wearing gloves, and you were on a metal ladder- as compared to rungs embedded into concrete, lets say- then your pulse could have been setting up vibrations in the ladder which generated the sound. In combination with some resonance in the enclosed space it could have made it audible.
I'm thinking even more likely is the possibility that you're exhausted to the point where you're a little shaky and your own heartbeat is strong enough to make you twitch slightly in time with it. You're pushing against a manhole cover but twitching and putting pressure on the ladder or the cover itself...
Like a said though, I wouldn't find any of that reassuring enough to cancel a visit to a doctor. It's not exactly scientific.
um...Vince
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um...Vince
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | Re: My friends could hear my heartbeat.....kinda scary
<Reply # 39 on 6/28/2004 4:14 PM >
| | | | Posted by J Marcs
Did you even notice I responded in form of Haiku poem?
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Rhythm and meter
Left unanalyzed by all
Should not be so strange.
Where poems are rare
One does not see poetry
If left unlabeled.
um...Vince
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