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 MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
 |  | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 20 on 4/21/2012 2:38 PM >
|  | | | Posted by SuchundFind
I know a couple of places in Texas where you will have no cell phone connection.
Where EMS in case you call 911 is an hour or two away from the next nearby street.
Where the next street that can be used by EMS is two hours away on offroad streets.
And where a heli might not be able to land for several reasons.
Direct pressure works well, but if you don't transport the victim, EMS will not be there in time.
A good friend of mine had to transport a shooting victim to the ER in his private vehicle. EMS would have taken 40 before they would have arrived at the scene and another 40 minutes to get to the ER, he was at the ER in 30 minutes.
For West Texas and other rural areas, transport is the only option. Unless you give me a better option.
And yes I discussed the same topic with professionals.
And helicopters and ambulances might be not available in certain areas of the USA.
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It's a backwards state. If your critically injured and don't make it within an hour you have a good chance of being DOA. Happens on the rigs from time to time.
Many times just stabilizing a person can save their life. If you have bleeding it's important to be lying down to get the blood pressure to drop down so the wounds can clot. Very true for head injuries and severe nose bleeds. Be a shame to bleed to death simply because you didn't rest.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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SuchundFind
 
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 21 on 4/21/2012 5:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by MrSivalls
It's a backwards state. If your critically injured and don't make it within an hour you have a good chance of being DOA. Happens on the rigs from time to time.
Many times just stabilizing a person can save their life. If you have bleeding it's important to be lying down to get the blood pressure to drop down so the wounds can clot. Very true for head injuries and severe nose bleeds. Be a shame to bleed to death simply because you didn't rest.
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I had this friend in Germany and he cut his forehead while he was drunk.
I let him sit down and used three pressure bandages around-his head. First one soaked after 3 seconds, 2nd ones after 10 seconds and the last one finally stopped the bleeding.
In Germany a physican in general comes with EMS.
And I made the perfect 911 call.
The dumb ass EMT's let the guy lay down, and checked what I did.
Laying down with a head injury, that's not a great idea.
After only 2 min's they begged me to call 911 again because the needed a physician. As I told them the first time.
Because he was laying down and because they opened it up again, they almost lost him twice.
So for a head injury, why would you ask a person to lay down?
Nowadays I would use QuikClot and drive him to the ER myself. As I already meet too many incompetent EMT's that don't believe in the knowledge of lay responders.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 22 on 4/21/2012 7:51 PM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
I had this friend in Germany and he cut his forehead while he was drunk.
I let him sit down and used three pressure bandages around-his head. First one soaked after 3 seconds, 2nd ones after 10 seconds and the last one finally stopped the bleeding.
In Germany a physican in general comes with EMS.
And I made the perfect 911 call.
The dumb ass EMT's let the guy lay down, and checked what I did.
Laying down with a head injury, that's not a great idea.
After only 2 min's they begged me to call 911 again because the needed a physician. As I told them the first time.
Because he was laying down and because they opened it up again, they almost lost him twice.
So for a head injury, why would you ask a person to lay down?
Nowadays I would use QuikClot and drive him to the ER myself. As I already meet too many incompetent EMT's that don't believe in the knowledge of lay responders.
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Maybe elevate slightly, but when you sit or stand your autonomic nervous system ramps up blood pressure to supply the brain with adequate blood flow. This hastens the bleeding. If you ever had a severe nose bled that wouldn't stop until you laid down, you know this is true.
I'm not a bleeder, even deep lacerations clot fast. Had a nose bled for over 30 minutes until I laid down.
Like I said before, rest, any movement can interfere with the clotting process. Internal bleeding is worse, but again staying chilly and letting the body do what only it can do is many times the best thing you can do.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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HungarianSM
Location: Toronto, Canada
Gender: Male
Eh?
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 23 on 4/21/2012 7:59 PM >
| | | | That's why Rest is the most important,
Recently where I live, the Heart and Stroke foundation is getting rid of "elevating" in treating cuts and etc... but I believe it's still useful for mostly arm, and lower extremity cuts, helps slow the bloodflow
Skys the limit! :)
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 24 on 4/21/2012 9:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by HungarianSM
That's why Rest is the most important,
Recently where I live, the Heart and Stroke foundation is getting rid of "elevating" in treating cuts and etc... but I believe it's still useful for mostly arm, and lower extremity cuts, helps slow the bloodflow
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Because most people don't really know what to do, so make it as easy as possible for them.
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\/adder
  
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| |  | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 25 on 4/22/2012 4:10 AM >
| | | | SuchundFind , MrSivalls:
You're both giving a lot of detailed advice (not all of it good) and mixing your own opinions into it. This is dangerous for a novice who reads this and then puts something you've suggested into practice in an emergency situation.
I'm sure you'll respond with "well you should take anything on the internet with a grain of salt" ... the ability to recall one post on this site while free falling from a novice rappelling mistake saved me from a pair of broken ankles or worse.
In an emergency situation where you have literally seconds to solve a potentially lethal mistake you don't recall voluminous posts but those little tidbits of information that might just save your life. But that's if you're lucky and you've been fed good advice.
I won't pretend to be an expert, I'm not trained or certified, but a bunch of stuff you've said contradicts other things I've read. I figured this was going to happen and I was going to stay out of it (hoping someone else would notice this) but I think everyone should state their credentials and a disclaimer before offering advice.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 26 on 4/22/2012 2:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
SuchundFind , MrSivalls:
You're both giving a lot of detailed advice (not all of it good) and mixing your own opinions into it. This is dangerous for a novice who reads this and then puts something you've suggested into practice in an emergency situation.
I'm sure you'll respond with "well you should take anything on the internet with a grain of salt" ... the ability to recall one post on this site while free falling from a novice rappelling mistake saved me from a pair of broken ankles or worse.
In an emergency situation where you have literally seconds to solve a potentially lethal mistake you don't recall voluminous posts but those little tidbits of information that might just save your life. But that's if you're lucky and you've been fed good advice.
I won't pretend to be an expert, I'm not trained or certified, but a bunch of stuff you've said contradicts other things I've read. I figured this was going to happen and I was going to stay out of it (hoping someone else would notice this) but I think everyone should state their credentials and a disclaimer before offering advice.
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I've been known to be wrong. If you spot it, point it out.
Even doctors can be wrong because medicine is an art, not science.
I've survived nasty accidents and can tell you your biggest enemy isn't bleeding, it's going into shock. It can drop you in literally seconds, but most times it's onset is slower. Trying to move when seriously injured can quickly became life threatening because of the pain pushing you into shock even with morphine. I was almost killed like that, in a hospital after I had been stabilized. lol.
Whatever you do, think before you do it, and don't make the situation or injuries worse by panicking, or not thinking things through.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 27 on 4/23/2012 5:18 AM >
| | | | Posted by MrSivalls
I've been known to be wrong. If you spot it, point it out.
Even doctors can be wrong because medicine is an art, not science.
I've survived nasty accidents and can tell you your biggest enemy isn't bleeding, it's going into shock. It can drop you in literally seconds, but most times it's onset is slower. Trying to move when seriously injured can quickly became life threatening because of the pain pushing you into shock even with morphine. I was almost killed like that, in a hospital after I had been stabilized. lol.
Whatever you do, think before you do it, and don't make the situation or injuries worse by panicking, or not thinking things through.
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Same here, I am not perfect.
We both have different experiences, but it looks like we have out bad experiences with the medical community. My friend got almost killed twice from the EMT's and a different female friend that had some kind of internal blood lost was almost shocked to death in the ER.
Now I was thought at the Armed Forces, that you need to retake CPR and First Aid classes over and over again, they do it every year.
Why?
So that you will do the right thing at the right moment, and it works. I safed a live with this.
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Mark
   
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 28 on 4/23/2012 11:14 AM >
| | | | Shock is a SOB, some people hit shock faster then others. Technically my mother has been in shock her whole life if you look at her blood pressure. Regardless its a nasty thing. I appreciate people correcting me(I Forget things all the time), and the two gentlemen reminded me about things I forgot. I was just covering the very raw basics so this thread would get good info.
Vadder I didn't see anything wrong, let us know what you think is wrong so we can confirm or challenge it.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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spetsnazbear
Location: South WV
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 29 on 4/24/2012 6:11 PM >
| | | | This is honestly one of the best threads ive seen on here in a while. And i agree, all urbexers should know at least basic first aid because lets face it this is a risky hobby.
-Pointman |
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 30 on 4/24/2012 6:30 PM >
| | | | Anyway, when you buy a First Aid kit, you might want invest into a pulse oximeter.
As a study has shown that even medical professionals can't feel a pulse the right way in at least 60% of the time. So this little device can tell you the pulse of a person in two seconds and on the side even the O2 in the blood.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 31 on 4/24/2012 7:51 PM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
Anyway, when you buy a First Aid kit, you might want invest into a pulse oximeter.
As a study has shown that even medical professionals can't feel a pulse the right way in at least 60% of the time. So this little device can tell you the pulse of a person in two seconds and on the side even the O2 in the blood.
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Keep it simple. BP would be better to known if you want to take the kitchen sink approach.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 32 on 4/24/2012 8:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by MrSivalls
Keep it simple. BP would be better to known if you want to take the kitchen sink approach.
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Mind the size.
A pulse oximeter is kind of small while a blood pressure meter is at least 4 times bigger.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 33 on 4/25/2012 12:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
Mind the size.
A pulse oximeter is kind of small while a blood pressure meter is at least 4 times bigger.
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Good for heart attacks I guess.
Knowing the BP is a lot more helpful in trying to stabilize someone, and a good indication of how they are doing.
I don't carry any of that. I do carry lots of water though, and that's something you will need if you got to lay low to rest.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 34 on 4/25/2012 3:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by MrSivalls
Good for heart attacks I guess.
Knowing the BP is a lot more helpful in trying to stabilize someone, and a good indication of how they are doing.
I don't carry any of that. I do carry lots of water though, and that's something you will need if you got to lay low to rest.
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Knowing the pulse is the only thing they train you in CPR.
It doesn't do any different to know the blood pressure, it might even work against the victim as someone might not start CPR as the machine might not show the right value.
And as you don't carry anything, you shouldn't have a word in it anyway.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 35 on 4/25/2012 2:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
Knowing the pulse is the only thing they train you in CPR.
It doesn't do any different to know the blood pressure, it might even work against the victim as someone might not start CPR as the machine might not show the right value.
And as you don't carry anything, you shouldn't have a word in it anyway.
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Might save you some energy doing CPR, lol. NOT NEEDED. All this is unneeded dead weight. Your goal is to stabilize.
I don't see the sense of advocating taking a medicine footlocker needlessly along when it's knowledge not equipment that is most needed.
A satellite phone is a good piece of gear to have if you're going into remote regions. You can survive a few days with a compound fracture, but you need to get out sooner than latter.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 36 on 4/25/2012 3:35 PM >
| | | | Posted by MrSivalls
Might save you some energy doing CPR, lol. NOT NEEDED. All this is unneeded dead weight. Your goal is to stabilize.
I don't see the sense of advocating taking a medicine footlocker needlessly along when it's knowledge not equipment that is most needed.
A satellite phone is a good piece of gear to have if you're going into remote regions. You can survive a few days with a compound fracture, but you need to get out sooner than latter.
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Oh yes, when someone you come along has a cardiac arrest, you want to stabilize?
Stabilize what? Your drink? Your sandwich?
You are only going out with your eyes fixed on one possible cause, trauma injury.
What happens if you meet people on the way, and one person has a cardiac arrest and not a trauma injury? What are you doing in this case? Stabilizing your camera to get a good shot?
How do you even know that someone has a cardiac arrest? Even nurses count in 70% of all cases there own pulse and not the patients pulse. These were a interesting study made on this, do you think you can do something better than they do?
You really need to look around you, its not onlu you you you.
In the case that you can help someone else, this might be rewarded, and if the reward is only that you saved a life.
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MrSivalls
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
I'll be a-surfin' in yer blood on Saturday night
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 37 on 4/25/2012 10:18 PM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
Oh yes, when someone you come along has a cardiac arrest, you want to stabilize?
Stabilize what? Your drink? Your sandwich?
You are only going out with your eyes fixed on one possible cause, trauma injury.
What happens if you meet people on the way, and one person has a cardiac arrest and not a trauma injury? What are you doing in this case? Stabilizing your camera to get a good shot?
How do you even know that someone has a cardiac arrest? Even nurses count in 70% of all cases there own pulse and not the patients pulse. These were a interesting study made on this, do you think you can do something better than they do?
You really need to look around you, its not onlu you you you.
In the case that you can help someone else, this might be rewarded, and if the reward is only that you saved a life.
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In the middle of nowhere if you vapor lock you are dead meat if a quick revival attempt fails. Again this isn't a battlefield or a coronary ward. You have limits to how much you can carry and what you can do. dah. Bring your brain and leave the dead weight behind.
THINK, before you do stupid things that can cause a serious injury.
Make sure you are completely hydrated before going out, once out stay hydrated.
Water and electrolytes are the most important things you need. Water is heavy, and takes up a lot of space. It's essential, the other crap isn't.
This stuff stays in the car:
DMSO for hematomas, sprains, burns. It will help limit damage, and reduce swelling and pain. Works on teeth and gum problems too. 4 ounces is plenty.
Hydrogen Peroxide is the great for wound cleaning. The bubbles help draw out debris. Properly done this is all the cleaning you'll need to do unless there's a mess of dirt in the wound. 4-8 ounces is a good amount.
Tea tree oil for all topical fungal infections. Will treat and cure ring worm, nail fungal infections, athletes foot, and jock itch. Works on abscessed teeth to reduce infection. Don't use on deep wounds.
Your security measures were inadequate.
How unfortunate for you. |
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Gunner Trees
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: MSP
Gender: Male
DISCRETION IS A CHOICE
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 38 on 4/25/2012 10:29 PM >
| | | | Are any of you actually a doctor or EMT?
Because, if your not, I really don't think you should be giving medical advise, IMHO.
[last edit 4/25/2012 10:30 PM by Gunner Trees - edited 1 times]
MAKE MSP ELEET AGAIN |
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spetsnazbear
Location: South WV
Gender: Male
| | Re: The 6Ps of UE – Band-aids don’t cut it
<Reply # 39 on 4/25/2012 11:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Gunner Trees
Are any of you actually a doctor or EMT?
Because, if your not, I really don't think you should be giving medical advise, IMHO.
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Yeah i kinda agree, this started out as good first aid, and now it seems like two doctors feuding over what to teach. Keep it at a low level. Yes having a small first aid kit on your person is good, I for one keep one in my bag and a large first aid kit in my vehicle.
we could just do the TL;DR version:
make sure person is breathing
stop blood loss
if they are unconscious , its serious.
if they missing a limb, its serious.
if its too serious, they need more than your band aids and duct tape. Call for help.
dont do what you arent sure about doing (just because you saw how to do a tracheotomy on the internet does NOT mean you should ever try to preform one)
a lot of what you guys are saying is conditional.
For instance: friend who is squirting blood from his arm needs to be stabilized then moved
friend who fell from a tall thing needs to be stabilized then wait for help.
-Pointman |
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