"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Thomas Jefferson
Lol, too bad that isn't a law or even mentioned to be one. But that is for another day.
Posted by dirt
You should take a sound look at your logic. It has a few leaks.
Posted by MutantMandias But, your belief in God is foolish and wrong. It is sad to us. We are just trying to help.
"wrong" and "foolish"? if you were paying attention at all over the last decade, you'd know that science left you and your kind behind about 15 years ago... atheism was briefly popular among mainstream intellectuals, until increasingly sophisticated approaches in theoretical physics caused Mr. Scientist to wipe the big X off his picture of God and replace it with a big question mark. Dawkins may stiffen the crotches of amateur pseudo-scientists everywhere, but to those who know better he's simply a pollutant in an otherwise important public discourse.
modern atheism, in its shaky and emotional insistence that God simply cannot be, ignores as many logical and scientific problems as modern religion does -- and seems, in its ignorance, to require as much faith.
i invite an intelligent and well-reasoned reply... Though to be honest, i expect something troll-ish (which you seem to be fond of resorting to, as a way of silencing your own cognitive dissonance and masking the weakness of your position).
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom.
"wrong" and "foolish"? if you were paying attention at all over the last decade, you'd know that science left you and your kind behind about 15 years ago... atheism was briefly popular among mainstream intellectuals, until increasingly sophisticated approaches in theoretical physics caused Mr. Scientist to wipe the big X off his picture of God and replace it with a big question mark. Dawkins may stiffen the crotches of amateur pseudo-scientists everywhere, but to those who know better he's simply a pollutant in an otherwise important public discourse.
modern atheism, in its shaky and emotional insistence that God simply cannot be, ignores as many logical and scientific problems as modern religion does -- and seems, in its ignorance, to require as much faith.
i invite an intelligent and well-reasoned reply... Though to be honest, i expect something troll-ish (which you seem to be fond of resorting to, as a way of silencing your own cognitive dissonance and masking the weakness of your position).
Haha, I think MM was just having a friendly go at me... for the record, it was well received... I did not pick up any malice from it. He's a funny guy, that's just his way
Exploring is like tattoos... They stopped being cool in 2005
Posted by maypost Haha, I think MM was just having a friendly go at me... for the record, it was well received... I did not pick up any malice from it. He's a funny guy, that's just his way
fair enough I'm new to this board, and am bound to point my guns in the wrong direction from time to time! if i took it all the way to 11, and everyone else is just kidding around, my bad.
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom.
i invite an intelligent and well-reasoned reply...
Have faith that it will come.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
shaky and emotional? no. just pissed off at being subjected to someone else's invisible friend.
Sam, we are ALL subjected to everyone's cultures, ideologies, and invisible friends. Why simply direct anger at one? Oh, wait, you hate us conservatives too
Posted by Aleksandar I'm new to this board, and am bound to point my guns in the wrong direction from time to time! if i took it all the way to 11, and everyone else is just kidding around, my bad.
What Fiend said.
Also, Old-Fashioned Guy
Oh good, my slow clap processor made it into this thing.
I believe that misses the point entirely. Who is to say that He didnt try, but people who refuse to believe in Him were too stubborn to be bothered with His warnings.
Being omnipotent, shouldn't he have been able to make his warning indisputable?
To some, the cross in the rubble is a symbol of enduring faith, etc. But that's because they're looking for re-affirmation of their faith. My interpretation would be that a cross buried in rubble is evidence that God has forsaken us, or that faith is powerless. Has the cross been sticking out of the top of the rubble once the dust cleared, that would have been a different story, but people interpret religious symbols to mean whatever they want, and it always seems to work out that those symbols re-affirm their faith. How convenient.
"wrong" and "foolish"? if you were paying attention at all over the last decade, you'd know that science left you and your kind behind about 15 years ago... atheism was briefly popular among mainstream intellectuals, until increasingly sophisticated approaches in theoretical physics caused Mr. Scientist to wipe the big X off his picture of God and replace it with a big question mark. Dawkins may stiffen the crotches of amateur pseudo-scientists everywhere, but to those who know better he's simply a pollutant in an otherwise important public discourse.
Well, on my planet, gods simply don't enter into the equation anymore. There is no X and no question mark. I don't know if you're read Stephen Hawking's new book Grand Design yet, but it erases the X and the ?. The burden of proof is on those making extraordinary claims.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
Poor persicuted atheists... The principle of John 8:7 applies to both sides of the fence. Christians and would be Christians arent perfect,and anyone who would assume such a thing or judge them based on that are fools in every sense of the word.
Posted by splumer Being omnipotent, shouldn't he have been able to make his warning indisputable?
I think you forget how hard it is to convince people. God can't make people believe in Him. Jesus, God in flesh form, performed miracles AND warned people, and they STILL didnt believe Him.
Posted by splumer
Has the cross been sticking out of the top of the rubble once the dust cleared, that would have been a different story, but people interpret religious symbols to mean whatever they want, and it always seems to work out that those symbols re-affirm their faith. How convenient.
That would be a perception of Gods presence based on religious beliefs. The cross, the physical object that is worthless and has zero meaning or value. It is the person who died on it that has the value and meaning.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
Personally I think this is people getting upset for no reason. I think a lot of people look at 9/11 as an attack on their faith and country. While the rest of us look at it as just an attack on our country. That being said, wouldn't it be a better use of time a resources to get rid of the ten commandments from courthouses or removing God from our money and pledge? If you are not a christian, then the cross doesn't mean anything to you. So stop worrying about it. It's just a minor annoyance to me. It doesn't affect my life at all, for better or worst.
Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Personally I think this is people getting upset for no reason. I think a lot of people look at 9/11 as an attack on their faith and country. While the rest of us look at it as just an attack on our country. That being said, wouldn't it be a better use of time a resources to get rid of the ten commandments from courthouses or removing God from our money and pledge? If you are not a christian, then the cross doesn't mean anything to you. So stop worrying about it. It's just a minor annoyance to me. It doesn't affect my life at all, for better or worst.
I would especially like to remove prayer from official political procedure. While it may not technically demonstrate an establishment of religion, it is so extremely distasteful that Christian bullies have to swing their dicks around at the opening of every session.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being
I think you forget how hard it is to convince people. God can't make people believe in Him. Jesus, God in flesh form, performed miracles AND warned people, and they STILL didnt believe Him.
Point taken.
That would be a perception of Gods presence based on religious beliefs. The cross, the physical object that is worthless and has zero meaning or value. It is the person who died on it that has the value and meaning.
You're right, but my point is, people take the fact that a cross was found in the rubble as proof, or re-affirmation, or whatever, that God was somehow present or... something. You'd have to ask a believer. People find symbols like this, and interpret them to mean things that fit into their pre-conceived notions. They never find (or they choose to ignore) things that might not fit those notions.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby If you are not a christian, then the cross doesn't mean anything to you. So stop worrying about it.
This may be stretching the metaphor a bit, but its like saying a swastika means nothing to a Jew, or a noose hanging from a tree to a black man.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
This may be stretching the metaphor a bit, but its like saying a swastika means nothing to a Jew, or a noose hanging from a tree to a black man.
As a jew, if someone wanted to put a memorial for Hitler or a swastica up(and pay for it themselves), I would find it retarded, stupid and in VERY poor taste. But I would defend their right to do so.
Exploring is like tattoos... They stopped being cool in 2005
Ethics
I'm new to this board, and am bound to point my guns in the wrong direction from time to time! if i took it all the way to 11, and everyone else is just kidding around, my bad. 
