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Yesterday, my son's Cub Scout den had five speakers from different religions or religious sects explain their faith to the boys. My boy is baptized but we aren't active in any church. I, on the other hand, was raised Catholic in every way. I recall being a small kid and lying awake at night worrying about going to Hell. What kind of sicko does that to a child? Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-religion, I've seen churches do wonderful things and I've met lovely people in them, but I think that we should have the freedom to choose if we want a religion or not. /rant
You betcha | |
Word.
And I say this after having spent the weekend on a church retreat with about 60 elementary school kids.
But the key thing is that everyone there was committed to not forcing beliefs on the kids, but giving them the tools they need to make their own decisions.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
My son's in Boy Scouts, and will be facing the Eagle Board of Review soon. We have never instilled any religious dogma in him, and I'm afraid the board will ask about the "duty to God" thing and really put him on the spot. I told him a scout is trustworthy, so you have to tell the truth, but you don't have to shoot yourself in the foot. Just say your parents didn't indoctrinate you, yada yada yada. What strikes me as odd is that for the scouts, it's better to be a Satanist than an atheist.
So now he's also in Venturing, and their leader wants them to do the religious badge (I forget what Venturing calls it), and he had to, basically, pick a religion. I told him to go Unitarian.
But my philosophy has always been to give my kids the tools of free, crtical thinking and not to tell them what to believe. Of course, I'm not Christian, so that's easy, but for people who are, they're pretty much required to indoctrinate their kids ASAP. I don't think it's cruel, except in instilling the belief that if they don't behave they'll go to hell, but... OK, maybe it is cruel.
| But the key thing is that everyone there was committed to not forcing beliefs on the kids, but giving them the tools they need to make their own decisions. |
Between what and what? Methodist or Baptist? Its in the church's best interest to indoctrinate kids as young as possible, because beliefs you internalize at an early age are the hardest to shake. G, did they have an atheist/freethinker/humanist there?
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Splumer the closest we came was a Zen Buddhist. All the speakers did a good job not selling their faith, rather just explaining it. I may "push" my kids toward that kind of lifestyle, one where the search for true self is the goal, not salvation (yeah, I know that Buddhist "give up the self" but that's the best explanation I have for it). Having been raised Catholic I still enjoy my visits to the church; it's comforting, I can always fall asleep in a Catholic church. However, I do think that telling children, "This is the way" is kind of a benevolent evil; they don't know good from bad yet and are hearing that what their parents do, the people who love them most, is what they should embrace--powerful stuff.
You betcha | |
Posted by splumer
Between what and what? Methodist or Baptist? Its in the church's best interest to indoctrinate kids as young as possible, because beliefs you internalize at an early age are the hardest to shake. G, did they have an atheist/freethinker/humanist there?
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All I was talking about was the retreat I was on last weekend, and yes, it was essentially all atheist/freethinker/humanists, with a mix of refugees from Catholicism and all of the other flavors of that silliness, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc.
So yeah, the point is to let the kids make their own choice based on what they find inside of themselves.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by MutantMandias
All I was talking about was the retreat I was on last weekend, and yes, it was essentially all atheist/freethinker/humanists, with a mix of refugees from Catholicism and all of the other flavors of that silliness, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc.
So yeah, the point is to let the kids make their own choice based on what they find inside of themselves.
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Sounds cool, actually.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
Sounds cool, actually.
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And the group raping is awesome.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
I knew a guy that did the Eagle Scout thing.
Senior year of high school for a theater class they were doing improv- if they could say one line to God, what would it be? His answer was "I do not believe in a Judeo-Christian God!"
Senior year of college... he is carrying around a bottle of "holy water", traveled hundreds of miles to see Nazi pope talk in DC, his AIM status updates quote the bible, and he is a facebook fan of Rick Santorum. Oh, and he carries around his Universal Life Church ordination printout and thinks he is a priest.
Pretty freaky, eh?
Most guys I know did the boy scouts thing as kids and I notice systematic differences between them and guys that do not. It seems like BSA instills a sense of initiative and pride, I have never known any of these guys to be cheaters, liars, or do real drugs... but correlation does not imply causation. I still think of BSA = modern Hitler youth.
“Civilization today reminds me of an ape with a blowtorch playing in a room full of dynamite." | |
"Nazi pope?" That's harsh.
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.” | |
Well the Pope, like George Soros, was in der Hitlerjungend.
Posted by Esoterik
"Nazi pope?" That's harsh.
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Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. | |
And the founder of the Boy Scouts loved little boys.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by DevilC
Well the Pope, like George Soros, was in der Hitlerjungend.
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For... for real? HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS. I mean, I guess it was required by law for German youth at the time, so you can't necessarily blame him, But still good to know.
In places forgotten, tread where you will. -=- http://www.flickr.com/photos/avius/ | |
Posted by DevilC
Well the Pope, like George Soros, was in der Hitlerjungend.
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Mein Gott!!! This begs the question.......just how old is this guy anyway!?
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.” | |
Posted by jukebox fuckup
I still think of BSA = modern Hitler youth.
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Nah, they're more like the bush leagues for the army. Except our troop. The boys actually unanimously decided that they'd let gay scouts in. This is contrary to BSA rules.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Our friends won't let their son join Cub Scouts because their brother caught the gay. I try to explain the Cub Scouts don't openly attack gays, rather we covertly instill the hatred so the boys will learn to attack them by themselves.  Kidding. We try to be as open to all people as possible, we live in a university town for chrissakes, we can't hate anyone.
You betcha | |
My son had a lot of fun in scouts but jesus those boys were unruly.
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.” | |
Just watched Jesus Camp http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/ a few days ago. Scary shit. Telling a kid about something is one thing, but subjecting them to THAT is crazy.
I actually went to a bible camp when I was 6. I got kicked out for asking to many questions. Apparently they don't like it when you ask, "You guys really believe in this? Why?" I was later ostracized from that side of the family too. Good times.
*edited for a link
[last edit 2/28/2010 4:26 PM by Oryx - edited 1 times]
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Why diapers are like religion.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by tekriter
Why diapers are like religion.
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They smell weird, too, especially once they're been used. On a side note, I have one of my Facebook friends praying for me in the FB group "Pray for an Atheist." I should start a group: Prey for an Atheist.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
They smell weird, too, especially once they're been used. On a side note, I have one of my Facebook friends praying for me in the FB group "Pray for an Atheist." I should start a group: Prey for an Atheist.
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You would be doing yourself a great disservice if you didn't.
Shut the fuck up and ride that fucking Couchmobile!
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