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maybe around here, in the company of fine people who think Cobalts & Cavaliers are nice vehicles :p
but yea I'll admit that obviously not EVERYONE who drives camaro's are white trash NASCAR fans, it just seems that a good sizeable chunk of them are (around here anyways - they're as bad as the dozens of middle-aged overweight balding guys you see in yellow corvettes and blue racing-striped vipers).
Have you ever driven one of the new camaros? I got to take one out for a test drive at a promotional event this summer as wasn't very impressed at all TBH. The instrument panels located in front of the shifter have your eyes looking down near your crotch for info instead of up at the road where they should be. The seats are mushy and unsupportive and the entire vehicle is chalk full of plastic bits and pieces. The more expensive trim packages come with a few metal finishes, but even the higher end model feels cheap and unrefined. Yea its got a big engine and maybe its fast in a straight line, but it sits so high, the thing lurches around corners and handles like a typical old school American muscle car - fast on the drag, slow round the track.
Sit in an S65 and tell me the styling isn't to your liking. heck, sit in one of the new C350s and tell me it doesn't make the camaro feel like a piece of crap. Other than perhaps the somewhat utilitarian styling of the STI and the seriously race-influenced design of the GT3 RSR, I dont think anyone can speak ill of the aesthetics of any of the cars I posted. The zonda is a work of art for cheesus's sake. You can take your kids to soccer in the RS6 or drive it to the track and beat lamborghinis and aston martins...dont know if you can say THAT about a camaro (or a PT cruiser either. I hate them the MOST)
anyways I hope noone takes offense...I love arguing about cars, I do it all day :p
www.tohellandback.net | |
Posted by terapr0
maybe around here, in the company of fine people who think Cobalts & Cavaliers are nice vehicles :p
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Posted by terapr0
anyways I hope noone takes offense...I love arguing about cars, I do it all day :p
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I just took offense to that first comment... lol
KIDDING, SAM!
hi i like cars | |
Posted by terapr0
maybe around here, in the company of fine people who think Cobalts & Cavaliers are nice vehicles :p
but yea I'll admit that obviously not EVERYONE who drives camaro's are white trash NASCAR fans, it just seems that a good sizeable chunk of them are (around here anyways - they're as bad as the dozens of middle-aged overweight balding guys you see in yellow corvettes and blue racing-striped vipers).
Have you ever driven one of the new camaros? I got to take one out for a test drive at a promotional event this summer as wasn't very impressed at all TBH.
Sit in an S65 and tell me the styling isn't to your liking. heck, sit in one of the new C350s and tell me it doesn't make the camaro feel like a piece of crap. Other than perhaps the somewhat utilitarian styling of the STI and the seriously race-influenced design of the GT3 RSR, I dont think anyone can speak ill of the aesthetics of any of the cars I posted. The zonda is a work of art for cheesus's sake. You can take your kids to soccer in the RS6 or drive it to the track and beat lamborghinis and aston martins...dont know if you can say THAT about a camaro (or a PT cruiser either. I hate them the MOST)
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Everyone i've seen in a new Camaro is actually some prepped up business man with the latest trendy car, or the midlife crisis car. Most of the NASCAR fans I know, including the ones i've seen at a race drive pick em up trucks.
Sounds to me like your analysis of the GT3 is straight from the mouth of Jeremy Clarkson & Richard Hammond. How original, quoting Top Gear.
Even A Genius Has Questions!?!
I do things because I choose to, not because I have to. My Life, My Rules - No Exceptions! | |
i have driven the new Camaro, both the V6 and V8 cars and to be honest, I loved it. It felt like a 1969 Camaro. As for the gauges in front of the shifter, if you had bothered to read them, they are extraneous readings that are more for show (and keeping with the retro theme of the car) than anything else. While piling out on the cruise on a friday night, you won't need to know what your transmission or oil temperature is, believe me.
Your review of the Camaro strikes me as it was gleaned from an import-centric reviewer. Also, it goes in direct contrast with the other 20 reviews that I have read on the car, including my own test drives in it. As for the interior, that is a typical import-centric bitch point. Cheap plastic... i have stated this many times for the record, but people still don't understand the fact that the plastics for a given interior do not come from the actual manufacturer. I would say that the majority of manufacturers in North America use 3rd party contractors to make the interior trim pieces for their cars. For example, I worked for Textron Automotive in Athens Tennessee... We manufactured interiors for GM, Ford, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, and Freightliner. Their flagship car was the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Mustang. Usually once a season, the manufacturers would ship us a demo model Corvette or Mustang GT and it would be parked just outside the employee cafeteria.
The German cars do nothing for me. The only German cars that even remotely float my boat (and Bandi, settle down) is the BMW M3/M5, the Audi R8 and TT and maybe the odd Porsche or two. Everything else just strikes as overpriced 'look at me and how much money I have'. The Zonda may have a fantastic engine/suspension package, but to me, it's just another unaffordable pasta rocket that will stay on a poster.
One thing I would like to bring to your attention is the one fact that people who buy HHR's and PT Cruisers are not people who race their cars anyway. These cars were built for the gee-whiz and retro cruising crowd, people who wanted something that looked different. These are not and never will be race cars, or cars that will go racing around a track. There were trim levels that were intended to be top of the line models such as the HHR SS and the PT Cruiser Turbo, but despite their suspensions and fine engines, they were never meant to be serious competition machines and have never been regarded thus.
And as for the original condescending comment about Cavaliers and Cobalts, i take issue with that. For a low end, entry level compact car, the Cavalier did very well for it's 23 year run. It was not technologically a marvel, but it had the appeal of the original Model T's... It was cheap to buy, cheap to operate, cheap to repair, and was fantastic in the snow. It was a great alternative to imports. After having 8 Chevrolet Cavaliers of varying vintages, I can vouch for the reliability, ruggedness and economics of ownership. As for the Chevrolet Cobalt, it is leaps and bounds ahead of where the Cavalier left off. The Ecotec engine is very reliable, very rugged and gets excellent economy. There are enough aftermarket vendors now that the engine can be made to perform in competition. I own a supercharged SS Cobalt which, for the price, is one of the most entertaining cars that I have ever owned, Fox body V8's included. At the time i purchased the car, it was a much better value than the Honda Civic Si, the Scion TC, the Volkswagen GTi (sorry Bandi) and the Hyundai Tiburon GT V6 that I drove... $22,500 for a car that will drag race, autocross and go over 145mph fearlessly. In fact, the Cobalt SS/SC set a record time on the Nurburgring for a FWD car, a record that was only broken by it's successor, the Cobalt SS/TC. But of course, critics just railed on and on and on about the interior plastics and seats...
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Posted by oddspot
Sounds to me like your analysis of the GT3 is straight from the mouth of Jeremy Clarkson & Richard Hammond. How original, quoting Top Gear.
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While I admit I've never had the privilege of driving a GT3 RSR, I'm fortunate enough to get up close & personal with a stock 2006 GT3 on a semi-regular basis.
I'm also luck enough to have driven in a 2005 carrera GT @ a track, but didnt post that in my favorites because to be honest, its a super-uncomfortable raw track car thats most unpleasant to drive on usual roads. The GT3, like the Zonda, is as comfortable on the track as it is driving to the grocery store - they're spectacular vehicles that are a world above the competition. Of course the RSR *is* an uncomfortable track car, theres just something about it that Ive always loved, even more than the pricier & faster GT.
Oh and samurai I understand full well how the design, manufacturing & distribution systems in the automotive industry function. I work as a process engineer for one of the largest Tier 1 automotive system suppliers in north america, and see it all the time. You're absolutely correct when you say that the big car companies don't actually make the shitty plastic parts themselves - they are in fact outsourced. What I fail to see is how that makes any difference whatsoever because the suppliers are ONLY allowed to produce whatever the car companies order. Heck this summer when we were launching a new program for one of the big three, we'd get back-charged $10,000 every time we shipped even 1 slightly non-conforming part to the customer. Most north american cars are full of cheap plastic knobs & dials not because thats what the suppliers are dumping on them, its because thats what the car companies are telling the suppliers to build. simple as that. There are a few suppliers out there like ABC group and parts of Magna that do their own in-house design, but those scenarios are few & very far between. Most suppliers are only allowed to build precisely what they're told. Heck, most suppliers dont even own the tooling they use to injection mold the cheap plastic knobs - only after GM has given them the dies and plastic spec's do they start making anything.
Oh and you're right I definitely am import-centric, but I've actually only just acquired a taste for euro cars - I used to be pretty ambivolent on the matter. My dads exactly the opposite, and has always refused to buy european cars, so it was always Ford or Chrysler growing up. Recent hands-on experience however has taught me the true superiority of european automotive design & engineering.
All of the cars Ive ever owned have been fords (who am I to turn down a free car??), but almost all of my friends drive audi's/mercedes/bmw. that being said, I also have a friend with a cobalt, and I must've known about a dozen cavaliers back in highschool. Today I get to drive "nice" cars on a refreshingly regular basis, and trust me, if you got to drive high end mercedes and bmw's or Porsches - they probably would be on your list too. My ford, or (almost) any other american car I get into is just depressing. Even my dads Expedition which used to be such a great truck has fallen apart in less than 5yrs.
Also, I never claimed the Cavalier wasnt a moderately priced, fun, reliable work-horse, its just not anywhere close to being a "favorite" car. A cavalier is the type of car you get when you're 16 and beat around with, not something I'd ever consider lusting after. I'd drive a cavalier because I *had* to drive a cavalier, not because its some type of dream favorite car. I thought we'd see a bit of creativity on peoples fantasy lists.....
Oh and to whoever said that camaros were being driven by slick business men - even NASCAR fans have jobs during the week...follow those slick middle aged dudes in Camaros to the track after work & you'll see they've discarded their calvin klein blazers for tacky sponsor-emblazoned race-jackets and chameleon reflection sun-glasses with strings so they can let'em hang around their necks. Style FTW
just my $0.02...take it (or leave it) as you wish. Like I said before, I've nothing against any of you (or your choice of favorite cars). I work with and go to school with a whole slew of car-heads and we argue all day offline about this kinda shit. its nice to have some people on UER to argue about it with too :p
[last edit 12/11/2009 10:29 PM by terapr0 - edited 2 times]
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Ah, this has turned a interesting corner........
Ezekiel 25:17 | |
Posted by terapr0
Oh and to whoever said that camaros were being driven by slick business men - even NASCAR fans have jobs during the week...follow those slick middle aged dudes in Camaros to the track after work & you'll see they've discarded their calvin klein blazers for tacky sponsor-emblazoned race-jackets and chameleon reflection sun-glasses with strings so they can let'em hang around their necks. Style FTW
just my $0.02...take it (or leave it) as you wish. Like I said before, I've nothing against any of you (or your choice of favorite cars). I work with and go to school with a whole slew of car-heads and we argue all day offline about this kinda shit. its nice to have some people on UER to argue about it with too :p
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I made the comment, but you made the comment about white trash NASCAR fans. i'm well aware that fans are employed, but the white trash breed you so kindly referred to are not the business men that are rolling camaro's around town to the office.
Even A Genius Has Questions!?!
I do things because I choose to, not because I have to. My Life, My Rules - No Exceptions! | |
i didn't appreciate the condescending tone, whether intended dor not. Nor did I appreciate the assumption that 16 year olds are the only ones who drive Cavaliers. That stereotype was a little too much for me to not say something.
to be honest, i have never really had a taste for European or Japanese cars. There are some that are standouts, from a performance standpoint certainly. For the most part, however, the people that I see driving European cars are people that have no concept of the performance potential of the car, nor do they drive them in the manner intended. Basically, to strip it down to the vernacular, usually it's pompous assholes driving Porsches, Audi, BMW, Benz, etc. because they can.
Also, after working on several BMW's, the odd Audi, a VW and one weird Benz, i think that the idea that European (German) auto design and manufacture being superior can be flushed straight down the crapper. They are machines assembled by people, designed by people and susceptible to flaws just like anything else. I've been around the block too many times to ever buy into the idea that these cars, or by proxy Japanese cars, are any better than the two Chevrolets and the Pontiac sitting in my driveway.
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Posted by Samurai
For the most part, however, the people that I see driving European cars are people that have no concept of the performance potential of the car, nor do they drive them in the manner intended. Basically, to strip it down to the vernacular, usually it's pompous assholes driving Porsches, Audi, BMW, Benz, etc. because they can.
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I agree with you entirely on that point, but I think to be fair we can agree it extends to cars from just about all markets. There are plenty of "pompous assholes" on the road driving SRT8 300C's, Corvettes, Vipers, RSX's, SC2000's, IS350's, etc... Most people who buy powerful cars do so as more of a status symbol than a response to some direct need for high performance, or even the desire to have it, not just those who buy european or japanese cars. 98% of drivers never get to see the real performance limitations of their vehicles, and wouldn't know what to do if they did.
www.tohellandback.net | |
Ok. I'm willing to bet the average "white trash" Camaro owner will push his mullet mobile to (and quite often beyond) its limits much more than the average BMW, Merc, or Porsche owner. Just my .02.
Ezekiel 25:17 | |
lol "mullet mobile" Dont put words in my mouth :p
There are plenty of idiots who crash all sorts of cars. www.wreckedexotics.com is a great site that keeps me entertained for hours. so so so much money gone right down the drain.
www.tohellandback.net | |
Posted by terapr0
I agree with you entirely on that point, but I think to be fair we can agree it extends to cars from just about all markets. There are plenty of "pompous assholes" on the road driving SRT8 300C's, Corvettes, Vipers, RSX's, SC2000's, IS350's, etc... Most people who buy powerful cars do so as more of a status symbol than a response to some direct need for high performance, or even the desire to have it, not just those who buy european or japanese cars. 98% of drivers never get to see the real performance limitations of their vehicles, and wouldn't know what to do if they did.
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i can definitely agree with that... the majority of Corvette owners are what I had in mind. Nissan GTR pilots are also filling that slot as well.
what slays me is that the people that could handle or appreciate these cars for what they are never are afforded the opportunity to drive them.
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I'll limit this to cars I've either owned or had the privlidge to drive.
Favorites:
2007 Mustang GT: She's a beast. Love the retro styling.
2001 Pontiac Grand Am: I love the styling of this car. Comfy to drive, easy on the gas, and thus far no major mechanical problems in 120k+ miles. The red interior lighting is easy on the eyes at night.
Least Favorites:
Geo Metro: I can't find anything good to say about this car. I guess it would be fun to douse in flammable liquid and throw a moltiv coctail at it.
Dodge Avenger: I'm not a big fan of Dodge products to begin with outside their Ram trucks. I felt like I was sitting inside a car made of Legos. Cheap plastic surrounded me in a coccoon of, well, plastic. Uncomfortable seats turned a 20 minute trip down the road into absolute hell.
When twilight draws near, when you are pushed to the very limits of your soul, when it seems that all you have left are the dead remnants of the fabric of your life:
-- BELIEVE | |
Ah the Metro. 3 cylinders of under sized fury on 12" rims. For its intended purpose they are great. ( I love how the "upgrade" is to a 4 cylinder ). Nothing in this world is more fun than to drive a slow car fast. Take a Metro around a tight corner at 50mph and try to wipe the smile off your face as it under steers to the point of hopping and diggin the lil steel rim into the asphalt. Its a thrill. Lol I'm nucking futs.
Ezekiel 25:17 | |
Posted by jeepdave
Ah the Metro. 3 cylinders of under sized fury on 12" rims. For its intended purpose they are great. ( I love how the "upgrade" is to a 4 cylinder ). Nothing in this world is more fun than to drive a slow car fast. Take a Metro around a tight corner at 50mph and try to wipe the smile off your face as it under steers to the point of hopping and diggin the lil steel rim into the asphalt. Its a thrill. Lol I'm nucking futs.
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I thought the upgrade was to a Singer engine.... the ever popular sewing machine to automobile swap.
Even A Genius Has Questions!?!
I do things because I choose to, not because I have to. My Life, My Rules - No Exceptions! | |
want to see someone have a fit? Tell a Suzuki Swift GT Turbo owner "Nice Metro." and watch the hilarity ensue.
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Posted by Samurai
want to see someone have a fit? Tell a Suzuki Swift GT Turbo owner "Nice Metro." and watch the hilarity ensue.
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regardless of what the car really is, I think the words "nice metro" wouldn't roll off my tongue in any context
Even A Genius Has Questions!?!
I do things because I choose to, not because I have to. My Life, My Rules - No Exceptions! | |
Posted by oddspot
regardless of what the car really is, I think the words "nice metro" wouldn't roll off my tongue in any context
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...only for the comedic effect, oddspot, only for the comedy.
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Posted by Samurai
...only for the comedic effect, oddspot, only for the comedy.
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it would have to be lol i ponder... through ones ownership tenure of a metro how often, if at all they would ever have heard nice metro
[last edit 12/31/2009 10:18 PM by oddspot - edited 1 times]
Even A Genius Has Questions!?!
I do things because I choose to, not because I have to. My Life, My Rules - No Exceptions! | |
Actually didn't someone put a bike motor of some sort in one of these? I can't remember. I know its been done with a CRX.
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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