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What do you think?
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Meh. It was really just an attempt at levity. You said something about it being impossible to affect the things that people believe, and I essentially challenged your belief about it.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
That is a plainly self serving link that would satisfy only the shallowest of intellect. It is not a scholarly work, it is religious opinion. It is not referenced, it does not even address history in any sort of detail nor does it address any of the major historical criticisms of the bible.
Posted by Trixi
Archaeology is ongoing and new texts are being found in dusty basement museums and deserts all the time. What makes you think every potential item has already been discovered?
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I did not for a minute suggest that new information may never come to light, however in the meantime there is still no good reason to believe that it is the word of a mystical being. None - save for wishful thinking. There are too many inconsistencies, errors, obvious plagiarisms from other myths to consider it any sort of divinve inspiration. If you find some good proof I'd love to see it as I'm sure the rest of the world would too.
Posted by Trixi
I don't see the Bible (I assume you are referring to OT) as promoting these things, just recording the history of the area and how the Jews perceived God's interaction with them. You will find that the Israelite's were just as much a victim of slavery, incest, genocide etc. as they were adept at dishing it out. These were violent times all the way around.
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What!?? I'll be back later with a boatload of quotes.
Posted by Trixi
I find it amazing that you cannot find anything helpful to humanity in the entire Bible. I guess helpful is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt that the authors of each book included in the Bible expected their works to be compiled into a comprehensive text, much less one which you seem to think is supposed to supply all answers to the problems and mysteries of life.
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Amazing -yet you offer nothing - and neither does the bible. There is nothing in there that is not wrong, unethical, wierd, or in the rare inspired case nothing that couldn't be offered by common sense and humanism.
I definitely do not expect that bible to reveal any answers to problems or mysteries of life. It can't even get math, astronomy or history correct.
Posted by Trixi
As far as proof of God...If I were a blind man, how could you prove to me that the sky was blue when all I see is black. If God has not revealed Himself to you personally, He has either chosen not to at this point or you have chosen to close your eyes to the reality of Him. I see it as that simple.
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This is as big a cop out as you can find. I call BS. Why the hell wouldn't this god reveal himself to me? Or everyone else for that matter. He likes watching all the morons that claim to have a book written by him kill each other or give money to televangelists? I have not closed my eyes - I simply want EVIDENCE before I change my beliefs about the nature of the universe.
Let's run with your question: If I was blind, I'm sure I could locate a credible sighted person to indicate to me what colour the sky was - and explain the process of observation and proofs. An apparatus could be erected, should I be skeptical, to refract sunlight through a prism breaking it down into it's light components known as the spectrum, and then shown to not be able to refract further demonstrating that the spectrum was complete and not further reduceable. It could also be shown that the atmosphere refracts light and that the broadest portion of the spectrum was blue.
If - and here is where reason makes an appearance - if what the credible scientist explained to me was reasonable and consistent with other known facts about reality I might choose to believe the sky was blue. If he told me that some dude died and came back to life after three days in a cave, I might be skeptical. For a blind man to live his life believing that he might survive his own death, or that by accepting fantastic ideas I can be better than other people might be more harmful than say accepting that the sky is "blue".
I have never seen the rings on saturn - but I choose to believe they are there. As far as most of solar system goes I am blind. The evidence presented is credible and consistent with what I know about reality - and here is the best part - my belief in the rings of saturn requires no magical thinking, requires no acts on my part, and harms no one.
[last edit 10/9/2009 12:47 AM by tekriter - edited 1 times]
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
As promised: here is some good "NT" quotes. I wish you hadn't put the "OT" off-limits cuz it's really great for this.
Luke 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
what about women? Women = not holy.
Luke 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, (18:29-30)
"There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."
Abandon your wife and family for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward.
18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
Ditch your wife and jesus will reward you.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
The natural use of women - nice.
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Silence!
5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Seems to promote submission.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
This one is pretty clear.
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Also clear.
1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
It actually says SUBJUGATION!!
Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Jesus want to get some adultry on. I love revelation.
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
I'm not sure who the great whore is, but she is corrupting us with fornication. No wonder christians are so obsessed with sex.
[last edit 10/9/2009 1:39 AM by tekriter - edited 2 times]
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Tek, thanks for taking the time to at least read through the stuff before responding.
I have had a multitude of personal experiences that I could fill a book with which convince me beyond a shadow of doubt that there is indeed a God that hears my prayers, cares for me (and you) and placed us here for a specific purpose that I do not yet understand and don't expect to until I die, if even then. I did not learn about God from the Bible or going to church. In fact, I experienced knowledge of God way before I even knew there was such a concept, beginning at around 4 years old. My mom was a non-practicing Christian Scientist and, interestingly, my dad was a firm atheist. I guess they shouldn't have let me go to Vacation Bible School with the neighbors when I was 10 because that's when I put two and two together...this was the same Guy! Anyway, Dad apparently had his own personal visit from Jesus when he was 45. Basically Jesus told him, nicely yet firmly, something like "he'd better get his crap together and fast or else". He is now a retired Christian evangelist so go figure. If nothing else had convinced me up until that point that there really was a God, his instant conversion and overnight complete 180 degree life change would have probably been the clincher. You had to know Dad then...
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Posted by tekriter
As promised: here is some good "NT" quotes. I wish you hadn't put the "OT" off-limits cuz it's really great for this. |
I appreciate your "research" but here's the problem, you cannot take a verse from a chapter in any type of book and expect to use that one verse to represent what the entire chapter says. Many times, the verses you are quoting are preceded or followed by verses which would invalidate your point. At the very least you should be posting the several verses before and after the one you think represents something you want to address, and let's read what they really say in context. For example, you quoted Romans 1:27, which I highlighted below, where Paul talks about how perverted people had become and (from what translation I am not sure) you interpreted that "natural use of women" was somehow being derogatory towards females. Reading that same verse and several more before and after from the New American Bible (the version used by the Church) we see the entire picture which pretty much applies today:
18
The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
19
For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
20
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
21
for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
22
While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
24
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts, for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27
and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29
They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
30
and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
31
They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32
Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
I think you get my drift...
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Trixi, I'm right with you about a lack of civility regarding yours and other's opinions. I think all beliefs, religious or otherwise, should be treated with respect.
Posted by Trixi
I have had a multitude of personal experiences that I could fill a book with which convince me beyond a shadow of doubt that there is indeed a God that hears my prayers, cares for me (and you) and placed us here for a specific purpose that I do not yet understand and don't expect to until I die, if even then. I did not learn about God from the Bible or going to church. In fact, I experienced knowledge of God way before I even knew there was such a concept, beginning at around 4 years old. My mom was a non-practicing Christian Scientist and, interestingly, my dad was a firm atheist. I guess they shouldn't have let me go to Vacation Bible School with the neighbors when I was 10 because that's when I put two and two together...this was the same Guy! Anyway, Dad apparently had his own personal visit from Jesus when he was 45. Basically Jesus told him, nicely yet firmly, something like "he'd better get his crap together and fast or else". He is now a retired Christian evangelist so go figure. If nothing else had convinced me up until that point that there really was a God, his instant conversion and overnight complete 180 degree life change would have probably been the clincher. You had to know Dad then...
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I guess my question is, and has always been, how did you know, and how did your dad know, that these were true religious experiences and not figments of your imagination or indeed, products of psychosis? Please understand me, I'm not asking this to make fun of you or your beliefs, I'm truly curious.
Also, as Christopher Hitchens points out in his book God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, it is only by accident of your birth that you are a Christian. Had you been born in India, you'd have been Hindu, and your perception of God would have been far different. In fact, you would believe in multiple gods, but only follow one. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, you'd have called God Allah. Had you been born in Scandinavia a thousand years ago, you'd be sacrificing goats to Odin and Thor.
So I ask, which is the true faith? How do you know that Christianity is the true faith? I assume you feel it in your heart, and that's great, but don't Hindus feel it in their hearts? I assume their religious writings say that Hinduism is the one true faith, just as the Bible does, so how do we know which one is true?
edit: added italics
[last edit 10/13/2009 1:50 PM by splumer - edited 1 times]
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
I guess my question is, and has always been, how did you know, and how did your dad know, that these were true religious experiences and not figments of your imagination or indeed, products of psychosis? Please understand me, I'm not asking this to make fun of you or your beliefs, I'm truly curious. |
Very good question, probably a combination of both  I often wonder why billions of normally sane people have had similar religious experiences which make them seem a little crazy. Some scientists think there are cultural and possibly evolutionary advantages to humans believing in a Creator/God/Divine Being. Who knows?
| So I ask, which is the true faith? How do you know that Christianity is the true faith? I assume you feel it in your heart, and that's great, but don't Hindus feel it in their hearts? I assume their religious writings say that Hinduism is the one true faith, just as the Bible does, so how do we know which one is true? |
I happen to be one of those strange people who do not necessarily believe that the Spirit of God can be confined to one set of beliefs or religious practices and find value in most, especially those like the Kogi in South America. However, as a Christian, I do believe the Catholic Church's claim to be "The Church", or unified body of Christian believers in Heaven and on Earth, instituted by Jesus himself while he was still alive, based on my own research and investigation over many years.
I suppose you know which one is "true" when science proves it, God tells you, or you die and find out then...
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Posted by Oryx
I see this as not going anywhere. People will argue about this whole thing untill their throats bleed, but nothing is going to change. Some people believe, some people don't. Trying to rationalize belief is a useless endeavor.
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Lots of the time it won't go anywhere, but sometimes it does. I used to be a bible-thumping, Rush-Limbaugh-quoting, door-to-door-witnessing fundamentalist, even though I thought I was a moderate, rational centrist. That's the kind of family I grew up in, and I clung to those things pretty stubbornly well into my mid-twenties. I even defended them loyally in forums like this one.
Anyway, long story short, all the while I was reading essays by Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. to refute them, it turns out they managed to soak in anyway!
Now I'm an Origin-of-Species-thumping, Daniel-Dennett-quoting, mind-my-own-business secular humanist. Thanks in large part to people who cared enough to hurt my feelings a little.
In summary and in conclusion, I think Energetic Debate is always healthy, as long as it remains a debate and doesn't degrade into name calling, anyway. So keep it civil, but keep it going!
In places forgotten, tread where you will. -=- http://www.flickr.com/photos/avius/ | |
Posted by Trixi
I have had a multitude of personal experiences... |
I'm sorry - I've been away for a while.
All of this adds up to nothing. As can be illustrated by this picture:
[/gallery]
'nuff said.
[last edit 11/9/2009 10:23 PM by tekriter - edited 1 times]
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by splumer
Trixi, I'm right with you about a lack of civility regarding yours and other's opinions. I think all beliefs, religious or otherwise, should be treated with respect.
edit: added italics
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I'm not. I'm for respect for humans but also for conversational intolerance.
I think that respect for personal convictions should be weighed against evidence.
Intellectual honesty should be demanded equally for religious and non-religious ideas. It is time to end special pleading and the inhibition against questioning religious ideas.
You never hear physicists crying for someone to respect long disproven theories, or mathematicians saying that you can't question their solutions because to do so would disrespect thier beliefs. Everywhere else in society people who fail to provide adequate support for their ideas are marginalized - unless you label it a religious idea.
Giving deference to religious ideas is clearly a bad practice when you consider events like 9/11 or, say, the crusades.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by tekriter
Intellectual honesty should be demanded equally for religious and non-religious ideas. It is time to end special pleading and the inhibition against questioning religious ideas.
You never hear physicists crying for someone to respect long disproven theories, or mathematicians saying that you can't question their solutions because to do so would disrespect thier beliefs. Everywhere else in society people who fail to provide adequate support for their ideas are marginalized - unless you label it a religious idea.
Giving deference to religious ideas is clearly a bad practice when you consider events like 9/11 or, say, the crusades.
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Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. But I think any belief that is sincerely-held, even if its based on something so inherently non-provable as religion, should be treated with respect. And by respect, I mean that I don't think we should belittle someone personally or imply that they're stupid for holding those beliefs. I'm not saying you ever did that, I'm just saying that that's how we, as secularists, should behave, especially if we want to be treated that way ourselves.
I post a lot in the Politics forum (yeah, I'm a glutton for abuse), and I get a lot of disrespect as an unabashed liberal. Not to mention a lot of hearsay and just plain lies (mostly directed at Pres. Obama) is presented as fact. I've been called an imbecile, and worse, simply because my opinions differ from the majority.
I agree that too much reverence is afforded religious belief, that often it is simply not open to debate. I think literal extremists have hijacked a basically sound philosophy and turned it into a situation where "if you're not with us, you're with SATAN!!!" and not allowed any middle ground.
BTW, Tekriter, I think your avatar is hilarious. Is that you? Do you wear that thing so the Major League Baseball spy satellite can't read your thoughts?
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. But I think any belief that is sincerely-held, even if its based on something so inherently non-provable as religion, should be treated with respect.
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Sorry for the delay - I had to get a paypal account. You see, when I moved into my house the former owner told me about the spaceship that crashlanded in the back yard. It was filled with 500 kg of gold bars. He even had a map. He buried it twenty years ago and it was too much trouble to dig it up - but now it's mine.
Now I need to rent an excavator to dig up the spaceship filled with gold. You need to send me $500 to help pay for the excavator if you want your share of the gold. Send me a PM and I will give you the paypal info - hurry there is no time to waste - the price of gold is at an all time high!
Nobody can prove that here isn't gold in my backyard and Pascal was a real thinker! So if you respect my beliefs (which of course you will) and want some gold (which of course you do) you will send me $500 right now.
Oh, and anyone that doesn't believe isn't getting a ride in the spaceship and sucks.
Posted by splumer
BTW, Tekriter, I think your avatar is hilarious. Is that you? Do you wear that thing so the Major League Baseball spy satellite can't read your thoughts?
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No. That is what the tinfoil is for.
[last edit 11/12/2009 4:32 PM by tekriter - edited 1 times]
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by tekriter
Sorry for the delay - I had to get a paypal account. You see, when I moved into my house the former owner told me about the spaceship that crashlanded in the back yard. It was filled with 500 kg of gold bars. He even had a map. He buried it twenty years ago and it was too much trouble to dig it up - but now it's mine.
Now I need to rent an excavator to dig up the spaceship filled with gold. You need to send me $500 to help pay for the excavator if you want your share of the gold. Send me a PM and I will give you the paypal info - hurry there is no time to waste - the price of gold is at an all time high!
Nobody can prove that here isn't gold in my backyard and Pascal was a real thinker! So if you respect my beliefs (which of course you will) and want some gold (which of course you do) you will send me $500 right now.
Oh, and anyone that doesn't believe isn't getting a ride in the spaceship and sucks.
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If this had 2000+ years of tradition behind it, and millions (perhaps a billion) people who believed it was at least partially true, it might have some merit. Of course, just because lots of people believe it to be true doesn't make it so. E.g. the number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9/11 or the number of people who mispronounce "Porsche."
To be more direct, I think you weren't treating Trixi with the respect she deserves as a person and a fellow UER member. Not that she needs me to defend her, but I felt that you were a little out of line, and I share your views!
One thing about the debate intrigues, me, though: I wonder how many of the quote you both used made sense in their full context. Such as:
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." I need to look those up. What if it said before that "And Bob of Arimethea said unto them..." and after it said "And the multitudes did say 'Nay! F**k that!'"
And another issue entirely: I work in a hotel, and I've noticed that now instead of just having the Bible in each room (I don't know why) we now have the Book of Mormon in each room! It doesn't get much kookier than Mormonism, at least in the mainstream.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
And another issue entirely: I work in a hotel, and I've noticed that now instead of just having the Bible in each room (I don't know why) we now have the Book of Mormon in each room! It doesn't get much kookier than Mormonism, at least in the mainstream.
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lawlz. I grew up mormon. I'll bet a nickle you work at a Marriott or one of its subsidiaries. The Marriotts are all big-time Mormons and put the books in all of their hotels. All paid for with money they made (in part) by selling lots of alcohol and cable porn in those very hotels.
And yeah, Kooky is a good word for it.
In places forgotten, tread where you will. -=- http://www.flickr.com/photos/avius/ | |
Wow - how did we get from aliens to mormons. That's a bit of a stretch - oh, nevermind...
Posted by splumer
If this had 2000+ years of tradition behind it, and millions (perhaps a billion) people who believed it was at least partially true, it might have some merit.
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Okay, forget the gold, I'll get it later. How about you come over and help me gather up some rocks. We should go out and stone some folks.
"If your brother, the son of your father or of our mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying: 'Let us go and serve other gods', unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, amywhere in the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him, you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yaweh, your god..."
Deuteronomy 13:7-11
2000 years +: check!
millions and billions: check!
When are you coming over? We can also try to find a good reason from scripture to respect other's beliefs. Like above.
Posted by splumer
Of course, just because lots of people believe it to be true doesn't make it so
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oh. You mean like the earth-centric view of the solar system? The crusades? The universe only being six-thousand years old? Pi being 3? Women being property? The ability to die and rise again?
I suggest to yo that there is no such thing as a personal belief. A belief is something that affects everything you do - including how you relate to other humans. If you have irrational beliefs about the nature of the universe and further believe that those beliefs will earn you eternal salvation, how would you look at those who do not share those beliefs? How would you think about those who would lead your loved ones "astray"?
You don't have to look too far to see evidence of the effects of personal beliefs on all of us. How about the moronic evolution/creationism in school debate? How about USAID denying money and development to African countries that would use money to distribute condoms or sex education other that "abstinence only" programs? Stem cell research? I'm sure you have seen increased security at the airport and the images of airplanes crashing into buildings.
Just because some religious moderates claim that they are tolerant and some parts of their scriptures are benign does not take away from my point that religion is a desperate marriage of hope and ignorance.
I further suggest to you that beyond the ad populum argument of religion it is more important to note that faith based religions are all equally uncontaminated by evidence.
[last edit 11/13/2009 8:09 PM by tekriter - edited 1 times]
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by tekriter
Wow - how did we get from aliens to mormons. That's a bit of a stretch - oh, nevermind...
I further suggest to you that beyond the ad populum argument of religion it is more important to note that faith based religions are all equally uncontaminated by evidence.
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Aliens to Mormons? Hardly a stretch at all! Tek, I think you forget that I agree with you. The only thing we seem to disagree on is how polite we should be.
Posted by Avius
lawlz. I grew up mormon. I'll bet a nickle you work at a Marriott or one of its subsidiaries. The Marriotts are all big-time Mormons and put the books in all of their hotels. All paid for with money they made (in part) by selling lots of alcohol and cable porn in those very hotels.
And yeah, Kooky is a good word for it.
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You win! Marriott Cleveland Downtown at Key Center, to be exact, though not for much longer. I still don't understand the logic behind putting bibles in hotel rooms. I've been at state park cabins, and they have them too. I guess "logic" and "the bible" don't really belong in the same sentence.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright | |
Posted by splumer
You win! Marriott Cleveland Downtown at Key Center, to be exact, though not for much longer. I still don't understand the logic behind putting bibles in hotel rooms. I've been at state park cabins, and they have them too. I guess "logic" and "the bible" don't really belong in the same sentence.
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Yeah. The Gideons have been putting bibles in hotels for years. They invaded my college about a month ago, too- I had to turn down about 4 copies in the space of 10 minutes.
I think the idea is, that christians who share their beliefs are rewarded eternally, and those who don't are punished eternally. I know in the mormon church, they were constantly pressuring with various supernatural sticks and carrots to push it on our friends.
It's memetics, I guess. Ideas that have lots of incentives for people to spread them around tend to stick around. If a religion had the tenet of "keep it to yourself" then I guess not many people would be following it!
In places forgotten, tread where you will. -=- http://www.flickr.com/photos/avius/ |
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Ethics
