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Infiltration Forums > UE Main > Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site(Viewed 5015 times)
Steed location:
Edmonton/Seoul
 
 |  |  | Daehanmindecline
Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
< on 1/6/2019 11:18 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
This was mentioned in the theft/trespassing thread, but I figured this belongs in its own thread, where any shitshows it starts will be its own.

These rules are meant to be cumulative; you can't use one to justify taking something and skip others. These are my own ethics, not UER terms of service. Ultimately if you follow these rules you will not be a treasure hunter.

1. If you would take it from an active location, it may be okay to take from an abandoned location. Matchbooks, business cards, and brochures are good examples.

2. It’s less bad to take something that exists in multiples at the site, the more the better. A box full of 500 demo CDs isn’t much different than a box full of 499 demo CDs. Likewise, a bottle with 328mL of liquor is almost indistinguishable from a bottle with 314mL.

3. Don't let souvenir collecting ruin the location’s aesthetic or damage the location. Things hanging on the wall, say, framed art on display whose removal could even damage the wall, are less appropriate to take than one of multiple identical things hidden away in boxes, such as, say, film negatives. Does it make a better picture in situ or souvenir for your home?

4. Anything you take should be of low value. Don’t take it if it’s something you could potentially find useful or would save you a purchase. This in particular includes reselling stuff for financial gain; leave that to scavengers and scrappers. Things I have been tempted to take but didn’t: awesome cassette deck in the shape of a sports car, various musical instruments, working record player (later, the owner came back and rescued it). It is also a good practice to restrict and embargo information so others can't get the idea to loot it.

5. "It’s going to get demolished soon" is not a valid excuse. "Someone else will take it" leads me to wonder if you really deserve it more than them. "It belongs in a museum" means you should probably bring your museum contacts along to retrieve it themselves.

6. Animal rescue is not restricted by these rules. Nor is helping someone recover their lost property, particularly money or passports.

7. When you take an item, you remove its connection to history and turn it into junk that clutters your home. You would be thus obligated to not throw it away. Its state of cleanliness is another trait of the object equally worthy of preservation, so consider it condition. Don’t get in the habit of taking things, or you’re going to end up with a very filthy home. (with compliments to Blackhawk)

8. Don't explore with others who flagrantly violate the rules you follow. If you are exploring with someone new and you see them take something you wouldn't, you can try to talk them out of it but stay calm and don't get in an argument. It's best to write it off as them failing a test. Don't explore with them again, don't share location information, and do quietly warn other explorers to follow suit.

9. If you take something, don’t brag about it. Keep it offline, and away from novices and outsiders. We don’t want people who are new to exploring to think we fully condone souvenir-collecting.

10. Above all, if you do take something, don’t get caught in the act and arrested by the police.

More musing about this is welcome, and I'm curious what other kinds of scenarios you can throw of me to see how predictive the rules are. I'm eventually hoping to translate it all into Korean.

Keep in mind these rules aren't suspended for the sake of this conversation, especially 8 (not 6) and 9, so if you use this opportunity to brag about that dentist's chair you stole, you do so at your own risk. Note that the only thing I've so far admitted to taking was a business card which was used for a legit real estate inquiry, and the site has since reopened as an expensive restaurant. These rules don't allow for taking much more than that, let alone disclosing it.


[last edit 1/7/2019 5:25 PM by Steed - edited 1 times]

Cfourexplore location:
North Carolina
 
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 1 on 1/6/2019 2:58 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Thanks for putting this up...very well said indeed!



"When you've truly done something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
blackhawk
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location:
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 2 on 1/6/2019 3:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by Steed

Keep in mind these rules aren't suspended for the sake of this conversation, especially 6 and 9, so if you use this opportunity to brag about that dentist's chair you stole, you do so at your own risk.



Even Schultz knew better...




[last edit 1/6/2019 3:04 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
RescueMe1060 location:
San Francisco
 
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 3 on 1/6/2019 6:27 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Nice write up, I just think its funny how in this day and age people don't have the common sense to have this figured out already.



http://www.flickr....rescueme1060/sets/
Urban Downfall location:
Montréal - Qc
 
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 4 on 1/6/2019 6:57 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
As you said, talking or boasting about taking something will never be a good thing, it just proves that you're not doing it for the right reasons.

For my part ive been tempted numerous time to take things (like everyone i guess, when you see something you like) but rarely do because i don't want to get caught with anything, if it happens, and would find it shitty for the others.


BUT one thing i like as a souvenir is "documents".

Any sort of paper with the name of the place on it.
(only if the place has historical or personal value for me)

Most of the time they are all bunched up together or there is tons of it, or they are left to the wind and will be lost by water damage etc.

I think documents of any sort should be saved somehow.(if the place have any historical value)
One day when those place will be demolished, those will be the only thing left other than pictures. The only physical/tangible things that relate to the building and it's history.

One day, these papers could end up at the museum as a historical piece.

Ive saved century old blueprints from a factory that have been trashed up for 30years, they were rolled in a bunch on the floor and looked like a rock or something. I could not believe I found them because this place has great sentimental value for me and incredible historical value in our area.

I even contacted the owner to see if he cared to see them, later to discover that they were lost in time and that they were the only original ones remaining.

This is just a story above the others.

That leads me to think that we are the last persons that care about those places and could save something for the future and history. But that being said, for me it's not going further than "documents"... or really small items that really relate to the building.


It should simply be done with judgment (and case by case)... nothing that could spoil it for others or to resell is the baseline imo.


This is my opinion, you may or may not like it, it's just as discussion purpose.

Being an underground and illegal hobby i don't think we should get fuming at each other for small things taken if everyone practice it in respect to each others.



Il y a toujours un moyen.
jonrev location:
Lake Wazzapamani
 
 |  |  | [jonrevProjects]
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 5 on 1/7/2019 2:03 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by Steed


9. If you take something, don’t brag about it. Keep it offline, and away from novices and outsiders. We don’t want people who are new to exploring to think we fully condone souvenir-collecting.




Learned this only leads to trouble very early in the game.

Nearly a decade ago I took a lot of things from an abandoned mall and posted most of them to Flickr. Pretty soon I had this autistic nutter hounding me to both sell him things I had, and to go back to steal things for him (from the mall and a hoarder house I had recently been to). He offered some ridiculous bounties to do so, which I doubted he would ever actually pay, so I ignored him.

About a year of this passes and the guy develops an aggressive entitlement complex, so I finally tell him to stop after blocking at least three or four of his Flickr profiles. He retaliated by digging up my home address and telephone number, and started harassing me offline. I got fake pizza orders from him and he once attempted to give away my car on Kijiji (leading to late-night phone calls). He also plastered my dox on Flickr, Facebook and YouTube under several fake accounts. Took about a month to get him to chill, but as recent as July '17 he was still stalking me and trying to get friends of his to stir the pot.

tl;dr: loot club rules 1 & 2


[last edit 1/7/2019 2:21 AM by jonrev - edited 4 times]

[jonrevProjects] | Flickr flicks
Founder: Belvidere Cinema Gallery - Waukegan, IL
stealthwraith   |  | 
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 6 on 1/7/2019 4:14 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
These are spot on. Thanks for posting this



Stealth: adj. designed in accordance with technology that makes detection difficult. Wraith: n. A wisp or faint trace of something
Shadowwalker91 location:
Washington County, Wisconsin
 
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 7 on 1/7/2019 4:35 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by jonrev


Learned this only leads to trouble very early in the game.

Nearly a decade ago I took a lot of things from an abandoned mall and posted most of them to Flickr. Pretty soon I had this autistic nutter hounding me to both sell him things I had, and to go back to steal things for him (from the mall and a hoarder house I had recently been to). He offered some ridiculous bounties to do so, which I doubted he would ever actually pay, so I ignored him.

About a year of this passes and the guy develops an aggressive entitlement complex, so I finally tell him to stop after blocking at least three or four of his Flickr profiles. He retaliated by digging up my home address and telephone number, and started harassing me offline. I got fake pizza orders from him and he once attempted to give away my car on Kijiji (leading to late-night phone calls). He also plastered my dox on Flickr, Facebook and YouTube under several fake accounts. Took about a month to get him to chill, but as recent as July '17 he was still stalking me and trying to get friends of his to stir the pot.

tl;dr: loot club rules 1 & 2


Holy shit that is nuts




Steed location:
Edmonton/Seoul
 
 |  |  | Daehanmindecline
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 8 on 1/7/2019 7:22 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by ClementRSedona
As you said, talking or boasting about taking something will never be a good thing, it just proves that you're not doing it for the right reasons.

For my part ive been tempted numerous time to take things (like everyone i guess, when you see something you like) but rarely do because i don't want to get caught with anything, if it happens, and would find it shitty for the others.


BUT one thing i like as a souvenir is "documents".

Any sort of paper with the name of the place on it.
(only if the place has historical or personal value for me)

Most of the time they are all bunched up together or there is tons of it, or they are left to the wind and will be lost by water damage etc.

I think documents of any sort should be saved somehow.(if the place have any historical value)
One day when those place will be demolished, those will be the only thing left other than pictures. The only physical/tangible things that relate to the building and it's history.

One day, these papers could end up at the museum as a historical piece.

Ive saved century old blueprints from a factory that have been trashed up for 30years, they were rolled in a bunch on the floor and looked like a rock or something. I could not believe I found them because this place has great sentimental value for me and incredible historical value in our area.

I even contacted the owner to see if he cared to see them, later to discover that they were lost in time and that they were the only original ones remaining.

This is just a story above the others.

That leads me to think that we are the last persons that care about those places and could save something for the future and history. But that being said, for me it's not going further than "documents"... or really small items that really relate to the building.


It should simply be done with judgment (and case by case)... nothing that could spoil it for others or to resell is the baseline imo.


This is my opinion, you may or may not like it, it's just as discussion purpose.

Being an underground and illegal hobby i don't think we should get fuming at each other for small things taken if everyone practice it in respect to each others.


Documents sound reasonable. I'm probably more likely to take unused staionery or pamphlets than unique documents, such as blueprints or hospital records, but I don't have a strong disagreement with your story. I'm a little unsure about books too. I'd probably only consider taking rare, old books, or one copy of multiple identical ones. We are just talking about more good vs less good to take, which is wildly subjective.



[last edit 1/7/2019 7:29 AM by Steed - edited 1 times]

Steed location:
Edmonton/Seoul
 
 |  |  | Daehanmindecline
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 9 on 1/7/2019 7:24 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by jonrev


Learned this only leads to trouble very early in the game.

Nearly a decade ago I took a lot of things from an abandoned mall and posted most of them to Flickr. Pretty soon I had this autistic nutter hounding me to both sell him things I had, and to go back to steal things for him (from the mall and a hoarder house I had recently been to). He offered some ridiculous bounties to do so, which I doubted he would ever actually pay, so I ignored him.

About a year of this passes and the guy develops an aggressive entitlement complex, so I finally tell him to stop after blocking at least three or four of his Flickr profiles. He retaliated by digging up my home address and telephone number, and started harassing me offline. I got fake pizza orders from him and he once attempted to give away my car on Kijiji (leading to late-night phone calls). He also plastered my dox on Flickr, Facebook and YouTube under several fake accounts. Took about a month to get him to chill, but as recent as July '17 he was still stalking me and trying to get friends of his to stir the pot.

tl;dr: loot club rules 1 & 2


That is troubling, but I don't think it's a direct result of you taking things, just an insane person.




jc0507 location:
Long Island, NY
 
 |  | 
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 10 on 1/7/2019 2:58 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
While I agree with you, I personally stick to the "take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints" rule. I find that pictures are the best souvenirs. You're not going to remember the building with a little trinket that you took.

The one thing I disagree with is that it is okay to take items if there is a large quantity of them. If every explorer has this mindset, there will eventually be none left.



adorb location:
Finland
 
 |  | 
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 11 on 1/7/2019 3:40 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by jc0507
The one thing I disagree with is that it is okay to take items if there is a large quantity of them. If every explorer has this mindset, there will eventually be none left.


This is not necessarily true, there's a point where the amount of something (say, CDs) can no longer be considered "large" and thus shouldn't be touched, if one is following these rules to a tee.

However, I agree that it's best to not take anything ever (except for photos as you mentioned). Saves one a lot of trouble in the long run.


[last edit 1/7/2019 9:04 PM by adorb - edited 1 times]

blackhawk
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 12 on 1/7/2019 4:02 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by jc0507
While I agree with you, I personally stick to the "take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints" rule. I find that pictures are the best souvenirs. You're not going to remember the building with a little trinket that you took.

The one thing I disagree with is that it is okay to take items if there is a large quantity of them. If every explorer has this mindset, there will eventually be none left.


I agree with you; stealing is stealing.
It's rationalising because there are many, one won't hurt.
So there are 20 dentist chairs, is ok to take one?
Do we set a dollar limit?
What about a hundred keys?
Each person takes one key to a lock they don't have and the key rack photo shot is ruined.
Think about what you have taken.
When's the last time you looked at those items?
When you die how many will go straight into the dumpster?
Then we have the 'splorers' who sell the stuff on ebay; these are just scumbag scrappers.

As for blue prints with few exceptions, the only people these are useful to are the property owners.
Since most are carry high res photo copiers in their cam bag... why not just copy it?
More junk to be thrown out latter or get you busted on the way out of the site.
Taking stuff adds a lot of worries and waste time that could have been better spent sploring.

Full circle; take only images and leave only footprints.



Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
Explorer Zero   |  |  | 
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 13 on 1/7/2019 4:22 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
I respect Steeds opinion but posting limits and rules for stealing stuff, no matter how worthless the stuff is does little to promote urban explorers or this hobby.

I guess some people just feel compelled to acquire more stuff, I mean who doesn't need more junk in their collection of material crap? Cherish it, hold it, fondle it, put it on your mantle and reminisce over it, pfffft, its just stuff guys!

As some of you already know, I "rescued" an American flag from a bando actively being demolished. Gave it to a buddy who was a scout master so they could deal with it. http://www.uer.ca/...l.asp?picid=145540


And I did bring home some contaminated mud from a naval ordnance base in the Vibram soles of my boots once. Hope it was not carcinogenic!




Steed location:
Edmonton/Seoul
 
 |  |  | Daehanmindecline
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 14 on 1/7/2019 5:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
There we go, some mature discussion.

These rules aren't intended to justify taking things, but to restrict taking things. Hence, the business card example. It's clear taking anything should be done for a specific purpose, not a need for more objects or even out of a sense of preservation; Buddha would've made a good explorer.

Obviously there has to be some kind of formula that can be fine-tuned to specific locations, regions, or countries. Where I am, there aren't many explorers -- there are probably more aliases of me (six by my current count, not counting social media handles) than there are actual other explorers in this whole country right now. Although the purpose for sharing this is to figure out rules that can still hold true at some date when there are more explorers.

I can see why there would be concerns about what happens if every single person takes one of a multiple thing in a country with more explorers and fewer sites, but these rules also help reduce the number of people who would steal stuff and restrict information for those who would pilfer a particular item at a particular site.

Also, I would never take a flag from a site. Although I have also likely brought home contaminants from US military bases, unintentionally.



robdobi   |  |  | AIM Message | dobi.nu
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 15 on 1/7/2019 5:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by Steed

7. When you take an item, you remove its connection to history and turn it into junk that clutters your home.


the zenith herman miller chair i found buried under a pile of chairs in a school that got demolished is really cluttering my house, it is unbearable.



dobi.nu / fullbleed.org - series 12 now available. / flickr / tumblr
/ prints for sale
blackhawk
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 16 on 1/7/2019 5:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by Steed
There we go, some mature discussion.

Also, I would never take a flag from a site. Although I have also likely brought home contaminants from US military bases, unintentionally.


To save a US flag from disgrace is a citizen's duty.
Surrendering an abandoned one for proper disposal is legitimate and patriotic.



Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
stealthwraith   |  | 
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 17 on 1/7/2019 8:53 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk


To save a US flag from disgrace is a citizen's duty.
Surrendering an abandoned one for proper disposal is legitimate and patriotic.


Agree that proper retirement is best practice for flags. Part of one of my youth leadership projects was a retirement ceremony for a flag retirement ceremony. This is very similar to the mimeographed document I used for preparing at the time: http://nwdistrict....20Plan%20Final.doc



Stealth: adj. designed in accordance with technology that makes detection difficult. Wraith: n. A wisp or faint trace of something
JokerSpecter location:
New Orleans, LA
 
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Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 18 on 1/8/2019 2:02 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
*cracks knuckles*



Steed location:
Edmonton/Seoul
 
 |  |  | Daehanmindecline
Re: Steed's 10 rules for taking things from a site
<Reply # 19 on 1/8/2019 3:26 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk


To save a US flag from disgrace is a citizen's duty.
Surrendering an abandoned one for proper disposal is legitimate and patriotic.


I'm not a US citizen, so no thanks, not for me.

I have found and left Korean flags, and if I found any Canadian flags I'd do the same.



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