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Infiltration Forums > Rookie Forum > What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?(Viewed 4083 times)
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
< on 1/14/2018 10:30 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Hey guys, so I've been looking at some towers and masts around where I live and I am very much wanting to climb some but there is just so much information out there about all the different kinds of towers, RF, what is and isn't safe to climb and it's just way too much for me to understand. I probably couldn't even identify them correctly 5/5 times. After reading all of the threads about towers that we're linked in this awesome common thread topics post by DJ Craig, I tried doing research on the FCC website about towers in my area to find the info they were referencing but I'm not finding the important info I'm looking for, so I was wondering if anyone can tell me the basic essential information that anyone would need to know before attempting something that could totally kill you. Or maybe if I post specific pictures if someone can tell me what I'm looking at. Or even better still, if there is a directory or any way to search for a deactivated tower in order to just bypass all the confusion. Any info is appreciated!



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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 1 on 1/14/2018 10:55 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
If you don't know what you're doing, don't... especially towers that are active.
There are safer things to climb...




Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 2 on 1/14/2018 11:06 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk
If you don't know what you're doing, don't... especially towers that are active.
There are safer things to climb...



My question is, how do the people who know what they're doing get to know what they're doing?



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That_Dude   |  | 
Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 3 on 1/14/2018 11:22 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Before I start, I want to make it clear that I am in no position to claim that the following information is accurate in any way.

From my experience with towers of all sorts once you've climbed a couple, they become repetitive and the only towers that still interest me are spires on top of buildings. The three things I look for when climbing or scoping a radio tower are as follows:

1. Height. The taller the tower is, the more power will be going to it. I generally stay away from anything over 100 meters as it almost certainly has some 80-100kW TV antenna array somewhere near the top. This being said, I have seen towers with nearly no antennas for the first 100 meters so it would probably be fine to go up that high and back down. I've also heard of people (mostly base jumpers) dealing with this issue by only going up 1/2 or 2/3 of the tower. This matters less if you're a base jumper since you don't need to worry about the time you would have to spend climbing down and exposing yourself to ridiculous RF levels.

2. Signs. This only really affects AM sites, but if you see a sign that says AM radiation I would recommend that you not climb that tower unless you have some certain way to tell that it is off and will remain off for the entirety of your time on site. Generally speaking, if I see any sign besides the generic "No Trespassing", "High Voltage", or "Dangerous RF levels beyond this point" signs I will give up on that site immediately.

3. Building size. This is not always an accurate indicator of danger but, on FM/TV towers, the size of the building or even compound near the base of the tower should reflect how much power is going to it. This is not the case with AM towers as some may have a small hut capable of delivering 10's of kW's of power and some may not have any building next to the site. It is also possible that the tower have RF amplifiers/transmitters on it's structure although this seems to only be the case with cell towers.

Some more random bits of information:
On Canada's Spectrum Management System, it is possible that a specific tower will not show up. I have found that if a tower is solely there for internet or cell service, Industry Canada will not bother to register it. In this case you can use some other websites such as this one https://www.ertyu..../cancellsites.html to find specifications such as who owns it, and how tall it is.

Cell towers are generally safe to climb since they operate at relatively low powers (~100W) although they become worse when you have an array of 18 cell antennas on a tower. Even though these antennas may be deemed safe I would recommend you never go to the top of any radio tower unless it is offline.

Never go in front of an antenna as that is where it concentrates it's radiation. Also, never take a break behind an antenna. I try to rest somewhere off to the side of any antenna regardless if they are designed to not leak RF backwards. The worst antennas are the ones that look like drums because of their high energy density in front that will ruin thin tissues like retinas and potentially cause sterility in males (although I believe it is temporary).

The general risk with these towers besides falling, electrocution, and legal action is the RF radiation heating up parts of your body in a way that the human body cannot handle.
DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THE FOLLOWING (feel free to correct me)

This happens because the radio waves will transfer energy through particles at intervals determined by their wavelength, which is related to their frequency. The lower the frequency, this longer the wavelength.

Drum antennas usually operate at very high frequencies which allows for great bandwidth but those frequencies are incapable of going through most objects. The very high frequency means that the waves will not penetrate very deep into the human tissue before transferring their energy through a particle which will cause that particle to heat up and the wave to lose most of it's energy once it is re-emitted. This means that the antennas will be very effective at heating up human tissue near the surface of the skin or through thin parts of the body such as the scrotum and the eyes.

Cell antennas do the same although their low operating powers don't make them a risk unless you are exposed for a long time.

FM/TV antennas are the scariest since they penetrate very deep within the skin, heating up your tissue deep within your body where there aren't many nerves. This means that you won't feel the RF energy burning your tissue until it's a really nasty burn. This document is good at demonstrating the power of these antennas: http://www.rfsafet...smoking%20suit.pdf. It's about a climber who was on a tower when a couple of high power arrays turned on. The climber only noticed this when his RF suit started smoking and he had a burning sensation in his leg.

This is essentially all of my experience so far and I hope it helps.



I climb to forget about the world and the pain it causes
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 4 on 1/14/2018 11:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by That_Dude
-lots-


Thank you so so much for putting that much effort into a reply



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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 5 on 1/14/2018 11:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Danger areas vary depending on frequently and antenna type. To think that not being in front or in back of some antennas is a folly; the danger zones can extend many yards from the antenna.

High powered TV, FM towers are generally never climbed when active. Not knowing what your climbing can be dangerous... without an RF power meter you have no clue where or how intense the RF field is... at first.


There are numerous details threads here on this topic on UER.




Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
Aran location:
Kansas City
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 6 on 1/15/2018 2:20 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Here's a list of threads containing a lot of information about climbing radio towers. Credits to DJ Craig's "Common Thread Topics" post for the quoted section.

Posted by DJ Craig
Radio towers:
http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=111761
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=65012
http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=118332
http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=110548 (rooftop antenna safety)
http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=100989
http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=100956
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=90468
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=90468
http://www.uer.ca/...asp?threadid=86543
http://www.uer.ca/...asp?threadid=89242 (cautionary tale)






[last edit 1/15/2018 2:26 AM by Aran - edited 2 times]

"Sorry, I didn't know I'm not supposed to be here," he said, knowing full well he wasn't supposed to be there.

ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 7 on 1/15/2018 3:36 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by Aran
Here's a list of threads containing a lot of information about climbing radio towers. Credits to DJ Craig's "Common Thread Topics" post for the quoted section.






Yeah those were actually the exact threads I was talking about



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4Valhal location:
Kansas City, KS
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 8 on 1/15/2018 4:06 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by ChvsingxGhxsts


My question is, how do the people who know what they're doing get to know what they're doing?


Most comes from people that have worked those towers - and they'll tell you that they shut them off before climbing.

There are numerous threads on here about it though, some previously linked. I'd do way more research than you think is necessary, and then some more. Best of luck!



Never climb after somebody with ulcerative colitis. -Steed
fredomurban   |  |  | 
Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 9 on 1/23/2018 1:57 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
- Cranes are meant to be climb and should be safe if you are not a kid.
- Pylon should not be climbed. I have a friend that inspect pylon and there's a lot of them that are dangerous and defective. Also, some of them are guarded by cameras.



blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 10 on 1/23/2018 2:21 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by DonPictures

- Pylon should not be climbed. I have a friend that inspect pylon and there's a lot of them that are dangerous and defective. Also, some of them are guarded by cameras.


A cable/structural failure would get ugly very fast.
If it's part of the Com or 911 hotspot infrastructure, a drone may also detect you if they are in use in that area; on IR you stick out like a meat beacon up there.
Large, long loiter time drones are in use stateside now.



Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 11 on 1/25/2018 3:50 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
415511.jpg (18 kb, 341x438)
click to view


415512.jpg (33 kb, 225x462)
click to view

Ok guys what about something specific like this tower? This is the one I was thinking about. It looks like there are very few arrays on it and it's not an AM or tv tower, and the FCC database says it's owned by a cell tower leasing company. However, it mightttt be in pretty close proximity to a small police station to go along with what Blackhawk just said. My other question is, will climbing something like this fry my phone?



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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 12 on 1/25/2018 4:21 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by ChvsingxGhxsts
415511.jpg (18 kb, 341x438)
click to view


415512.jpg (33 kb, 225x462)
click to view

Ok guys what about something specific like this tower? This is the one I was thinking about. It looks like there are very few arrays on it and it's not an AM or tv tower, and the FCC database says it's owned by a cell tower leasing company. However, it mightttt be in pretty close proximity to a small police station to go along with what Blackhawk just said. My other question is, will climbing something like this fry my phone?


Cell tower, and yes on any active tower you risk damage to unshielded electronics if the EM energy can couple with their circuits.

I think long and hard if the reward is worth the risk, including arrest and possible federal charges.
You be much better off climbing an old AT&T microwave tower if it's not being used as an FM or TV antenna. They are built to be easily climbed and serviced. However the above warning still applies.



Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 13 on 1/25/2018 4:31 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk


You be much better off climbing an old AT&T microwave tower if it's not being used as an FM or TV antenna.


Like a longline? I'd love to but I've never actually seen one in person



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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 14 on 1/25/2018 4:34 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by ChvsingxGhxsts


Like a longline? I'd love to but I've never actually seen one in person


Long lines are underground cold war era com lines.



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ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 15 on 1/25/2018 4:49 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk


Long lines are underground cold war era com lines.


I've done some research and found a map of longlines, and as it happens I actually have seen one, but it didn't look like the traditional ones I've seen. How can you determine if it is inactive or if it's been bought and repurposed? Just go and listen for buzzing sounds or is there a more concrete way?



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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 16 on 1/25/2018 5:44 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by ChvsingxGhxsts


I've done some research and found a map of longlines, and as it happens I actually have seen one, but it didn't look like the traditional ones I've seen. How can you determine if it is inactive or if it's been bought and repurposed? Just go and listen for buzzing sounds or is there a more concrete way?


Long lines have been obsolete technology for decades...



Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 17 on 1/25/2018 12:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk


Long lines have been obsolete technology for decades...


Yeah but the American Tower Corporation has bought up a lot of longlines and repurposed them to act as just another cell tower, I'd assume by putting arrays on it, but regardless, the fact is that because they were longlines at some point doesn't necessarily mean the tower itself is inactive




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blackhawk
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 18 on 1/25/2018 3:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
You answered your own Q
Posting on public viewable threads means anyone including LEOs and property owners can easily search for and view them...



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ChvsingxGhxsts location:
Wisconsin
 
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Re: What do I need to know about AM/FM/Cell towers, masts, pylons?
<Reply # 19 on 1/25/2018 4:58 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER ForumQuote
Posted by blackhawk
You answered your own Q
Posting on public viewable threads means anyone including LEOs and property owners can easily search for and view them...


I don't understand what you are referring to. If you are referring to my question as to whether or not they are active, I still don't know how to determine if it has in fact been re purposed. As for the comment about the LEOs, I don't understand your point. Are you supposing I have revealed something I shouldn't have, or that for this reason I should refrain? I haven't included any coordinates, locations, or anything that could lead anyone to the longline I am looking at, so I don't suppose I'm self incriminating any more than anyone else on this forum posting ambiguities about their exploits. And yeah, if I can easily enough search and find a longline, so, too, can the property owners and LEO's, sure, but I don't see what the matter is. Like I said I don't believe I have revealed anything of value that would make that ability meaningful as it pertains to me and my getting caught. Them being able to conduct a google search shouldn't directly result in my downfall I don't believe. If I misunderstood your implications please correct me. However, rest assured I would LOVE to not post on the public forum, so perhaps I should start working up a case for FM at some point in the future, haha



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