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Somewhat random hypothetical question but I've been pondering it nonetheless and am hoping someone with more experience can help me out.
Obviously I want to avoid any police interactions and legal trouble, but I also want to explore. Is it ever a bad idea to ask permission, get denied, and still go explore?
Half of me thinks this is better because you might actually get permission, but the other half of me thinks this will put them on high alert for a trespasser and will get me in more trouble if I'm caught since I don't have any real excuse.
What do you think?
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You don't want to give the owner the choice unless they are going to say 'yes' is want you're saying?
You can't have you cake and eat it too... win some, lose some.
Best to have permission when possible although there are many places this is not an issue at all.
If the owner cares, you risk being busted without permission.
Do it enough, trespass, the odds will catch up with you eventually.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Many of explorers, me included, have gained entry to must-see locations by asking permission. Sometimes striking up a conversation with a security guard who is bored can be a good thing. All they can say is NO! It wont work to your advantage all the time however. Waiting for an opportunity to arise to gain entry by other means can be long and tiresome at times. Patience and a watchful eye can be very rewarding in the long run. You will be surprised how many locations you can see if the timing is right 
A place of Mystery is Always worth a curiosity trip!
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If it were a security guard or worker I would just wait a few days. If it were the property owner or a resident of the area, I would comply. Better to go in not knowing you arent allowed. Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
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Posted by blackhawk
You don't want to give the owner the choice unless they are going to say 'yes' is want you're saying?
You can't have you cake and eat it too... win some, lose some.
Best to have permission when possible although there are many places this is not an issue at all.
If the owner cares, you risk being busted without permission.
Do it enough, trespass, the odds will catch up with you eventually.
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Not necessarily, just thinking out loud about the risk-reward ratio and whether asking for permission and getting denied increases the risk side of the equation.
You raise a good point though, getting busted is getting busted regardless!
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Posted by Steed
If it were a security guard or worker I would just wait a few days. If it were the property owner or a resident of the area, I would comply. Better to go in not knowing you arent allowed. Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
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"Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission."
Some truth in that however... Never steal what you can ask for and get free.
After all that money and grief at -that- Nike site, the police chief offered to let me shoot there anytime I wanted.
He had the key to the gate.
Fuck me silly... stealing when it could've been mine.
Posted by rs21
Not necessarily, just thinking out loud about the risk-reward ratio and whether asking for permission and getting denied increases the risk side of the equation.
You raise a good point though, getting busted is getting busted regardless!
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If they denied you permission, you have been verbally warned.
Plus the owner probably will be even more pissed at you if caught.
Consider asking for permission lessons in social engineering. The better you are, the better your results... but no one gets 100% of them.
Sometimes no means no go.
Plenty of fish in the sea; don't sweat unless it's a white whale of a site.
[last edit 8/24/2017 2:19 AM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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After all that money and grief at -that- Nike site, the police chief offered to let me shoot there anytime I wanted.
He had the key to the gate.
Fuck me silly... stealing when it could've been mine. |
You got a story for that? Sounds like an interesting situation to say the least haha
Grow old, but never grow up. |
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Posted by CanidCamera
You got a story for that? Sounds like an interesting situation to say the least haha
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I've posted it at least 3 times.
Morals of the story:
Don't get too sneaky for your own good.
Keep tripods covered; better yet don't bring them.
Always be 100% compliant with cops.
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People are trouble.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Posted by blackhawk
I've posted it at least 3 times.
Morals of the story:
Don't get too sneaky for your own good.
Keep tripods covered; better yet don't bring them.
Always be 100% compliant with cops.
&
People are trouble.
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you should get a big orange sticker for your Manfotto that says: NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE
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Posted by 2Xplorations
you should get a big orange sticker for your Manfotto that says: NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE
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Or just shoot the little bitches with it
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Honestly it comes down to if you think you'll get permission or not, and whether you're willing to risk it. If you don't think you'll get the yes, it might be best to just go and pretend you wandered in.
"That sounds like a horrible idea! Let's do it!" |
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Perhaps have someone else (who is also decent at social engineering) do the asking on behalf of both of you (naming you only as "a friend") while you're not there, that way if the answer is yes he's got you in, and if it's no, then you weren't told no, only someone else that asked. They might have been refused permission, but you still just walked in from the back thinking it was abandoned...
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Not sure about states but usually health and safety puts owners off here in the Uk for liability reasons. Never asked for it myself prefer people not to know i have been and gone. That way they don't get upset
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Posted by Tom
Perhaps have someone else (who is also decent at social engineering) do the asking on behalf of both of you (naming you only as "a friend") while you're not there, that way if the answer is yes he's got you in, and if it's no, then you weren't told no, only someone else that asked. They might have been refused permission, but you still just walked in from the back thinking it was abandoned...
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That's actually a pretty good idea
Are we living a life that is safe from harm? Of course not, we never are. But that's not the right question. The question is, are we living a life that is worth the harm? |
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Posted by ryan5685
That's actually a pretty good idea
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The straight forward approach is usually best; KISS.
Subterfuge is a poor way to win trust; WYSIWYG.
I got free reign at multiple demo sites by doing this.
I saw the same site supervisor turn away other photographers as I shot away.
You're selling yourself to them; you have to earn their trust.
Their biggest worry is you'll injure yourself or someone else on the site, or steal.
They need to know you can handle yourself.
In my case that trust was earned one step at a time by following their rules. First shoot was only a few minutes, with the super there the whole time.
Then which buildings where off limits, to finally no limits and invites to new demo projects.
You learn by doing even when you fail.
If you don't try, you learn nothing.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Posted by rs21
Somewhat random hypothetical question but I've been pondering it nonetheless and am hoping someone with more experience can help me out.
Obviously I want to avoid any police interactions and legal trouble, but I also want to explore. Is it ever a bad idea to ask permission, get denied, and still go explore?
Half of me thinks this is better because you might actually get permission, but the other half of me thinks this will put them on high alert for a trespasser and will get me in more trouble if I'm caught since I don't have any real excuse.
What do you think?
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Personally if I knew an owner had already asked me not to explore on their property, I wouldn't do it.
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Ethics
