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So... my son bought a '97 Jeep Wrangler a couple weeks ago, and Saturday the head gasket blew. He said there was a cloud of smoke coming out from under the hood, the oil on the dipstick is chocolate milk colored and goes about halfway up. Engine is a 2.5 L 4 cyl.
I replaced the head gasket in my '86 VW Golf several years ago, but coolant got into the cylinders and caused them to seize, and I'm worried we're gonna eff this up too. Any suggestions or helpful hints to do it right this time? I'm pretty sure I have all the tools I need: sockets, torque wrench... and that's pretty much all I expect to use.
I wonder should we drain the oil and any remaining coolant before we start?
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright |
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The 2.5 is basically a tractor engine. Very easy to work on and cheap to buy. That said it will be easier and cheaper to swap in a good used one. How long did he drive it after it blew? Why did it blow? And do you suspect bearing damage?
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Sorry to hear. If you plan to fix the existing engine make sure the head isn't warped and make sure you use a good mopar head gasket as well as new head bolts.
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Posted by sleeperspirit
Sorry to hear. If you plan to fix the existing engine make sure the head isn't warped and make sure you use a good mopar head gasket as well as new head bolts.
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that 2.5L is not known for head gasket failure as far as I know... I wonder if the engine was warped on, driven hot hot hot and subsequently warped the head.
all i can say is DO NOT RUSH. Take your time. Buy a service manual, not a haynes manual; a chiltons book or actually D-C/Jeep shop manual.
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Posted by Samurai
that 2.5L is not known for head gasket failure as far as I know... I wonder if the engine was warped on, driven hot hot hot and subsequently warped the head.
all i can say is DO NOT RUSH. Take your time. Buy a service manual, not a haynes manual; a chiltons book or actually D-C/Jeep shop manual.
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Typically you have to run them very hot. He could have just been unlucky and got one with a bad/cracked head. I would have the head checked for warp and crack. But I stand firm with grabbing a used engine. They are not hard to find and cheap. Or V8 swap time! 
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Yeah I've had a ton of turbo 2.5s with hg problems but the 2.5 na is very rare to have problems like that.
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Posted by sleeperspirit
Yeah I've had a ton of turbo 2.5s with hg problems but the 2.5 na is very rare to have problems like that.
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It's not a Chrysler design. Same 2.5 as in the old S-10.
Actually I could be wrong, but pretty sure.
[last edit 11/19/2012 11:38 PM by jeepdave - edited 1 times]
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Finding a good low mileage engine to swap in would be the easier alternative. Maybe cheaper depending on the condition of the head and the deck of the block. If the deck is warped (unlikely but possible) the engine has to come out and apart entirely to machine it. May be able to find a used engine for less than machine work would cost.
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Just put a 4.0 in it like a proper jeep has. Then you will be good to go, the best engine ever to be put in jeeps.
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Swapping out the engine is easier?!?! I have no idea why it blew. He drove it maybe 100 yards after it blew. Which bearings do you mean? I'm a pretty fair mechanic, but I'm not expert by any stretch. I think he'd prefer the 4.0, but that's way beyond my skill level. Or is it? Also, I'd need a cherry picker, and a truck to get the engine from wherever we found it.
I figured doing the head gasket would be a good opportunity to check out some other stuff that might be wrong with it, like possibly the rocker arms, lifters or pushrods, since it had a nasty knock before it died.
How does one check the head or the deck for warp? Lay a straight edge across it and eyeball it? My son's GF's dad suggested he have it machined anyway, just to ensure it is isn't warped (the head that is). Anyone want to come to Cleveland and help us? I have beer. 
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright |
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Don't do a 4.0 swap. Too much involved. Trans is different and wires are different. I ask how long he drove it because if it looked like special sauce then its been leaking a while. The bottom end prefers oil rather than a oil water cocktail. Your friend is right about having the head checked and maybe shaved. But that engine is easy to swap out straight. And with the left over cash you could get a new clutch if you need since it will be exposed anyway.
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Believe it or not there will be a lot less work involved replacing the engine as an assembly than pulling the head. Especially if it was knocking before hand.
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This I've done many a time.
Checking the warpedness is easy. Get a feeler gauge
and a pretty legit straightedge. Slide the gauge under the edge to check for warpedness. You measure across the gasket surface, across each cylinder, and X corner to corner. Usually the acceptable warpage is below .004 inches or so depending on model.
Head's gonna be your cheaper option. All this bullshit about it being easier to engine swap is 'malarky' assuming your bottom end's ok. I can pull my 2.5 head, intake/exhaust, turbo and all in about an hour. Different engine or not, how hard can an NA jeep engine be?
But if it ran milkshake for more than a mile or so you might be in trouble sooner than later with bearings and such.
If it's warped, you can find a machine shop to mill it. It only cost me $30 at a local engine shop to get .008 shaved flat. I also was able to get a rebuilt head from cylinder heads international for $220 ready to install after my cam broke. Been about 1,000 miles and I've had no trouble. 1 year warrantee too.
Don't cheap out on head bolts or gasket. I bought felpro once and had milkshake within 5 minutes running. They're called failpro for a reason. Mopar gasket and bolts together are <$100.
Finally, relax. It's a 4 cylinder engine. Not a space craft. As long as your gasket mating surfaces are clean, you don't leave debris/liquid in the cylinder, and you torque the head properly, it's probably gonna be fine.
[last edit 11/20/2012 7:16 AM by budda - edited 4 times]
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Why couldn't you put the bunny back in the box? - Nicholas Cage |
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Posted by budda
But seriously, how long was the engine ran since blowing?
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That's my biggest concern. I have known too many kids who blow a head gasket, go through all the trouble only to have a bottom end knock either right away or 4-500 miles later because the lower end got chewed up by the milk shake.
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Posted by jeepdave
That's my biggest concern. I have known too many kids who blow a head gasket, go through all the trouble only to have a bottom end knock either right away or 4-500 miles later because the lower end got chewed up by the milk shake.
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+1
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Posted by jeepdave
That's my biggest concern. I have known too many kids who blow a head gasket, go through all the trouble only to have a bottom end knock either right away or 4-500 miles later because the lower end got chewed up by the milk shake.
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Like I said, it was only about 100 yards. I did a quick Google for a replacement engine, and the cheapest I found was $1700, plus a $300 core. How is this cheaper?
I also looked at Cylinder Heads Int'l, they wanted $300-ish for a reman head. Not bad, and they take cores in any condition.
I have a line on an indie repair shop that comes highly recommended. I'm gonna give them a call today and see what he wants to do it, though my son said last night he wants to do it himself (i.e., he wants me to do it).
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright |
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Your looking in the wrong places for an engine.
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Posted by jeepdave
That's my biggest concern. I have known too many kids who blow a head gasket, go through all the trouble only to have a bottom end knock either right away or 4-500 miles later because the lower end got chewed up by the milk shake.
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that was my brother's concern with the Beretta. I drove the car 4 miles with all that coolanty goodness in the pan. Who knew how far the previous owner had driven it? So, we're actually surprised that the crank hasn't let go over the past couple of years (3100 V6's had a tendency to eat intake gaskets as well as head gaskets due to a cheap gasket from the factory).
as a funny haha... where my brother worked, this girl brought in a 93 Cavalier with the 2.2L OHV engine. Had a head gasket done. Kept overheating after that. After the third time, the shop pulled the head off and had it checked for warpage. It was warped hard, so warped in fact that it would not sit flush on a tabletop. So, got another head, bolted it on... still leaking. Ended up check the deck (engine block top) for warpage... the engine block itself was warped. She had gotten the engine so hot and had driven it (they found out later on) for miles! Luckily a 2.2L was not hard to find.
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The 2.5 litre engine is actually not that bad to pull the head off for a look.
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Side note, Idk if you can get them for the Jeep 2.5, but I highly recommend ARP head bolts. They're about $30-50 more, but It's worth it. These fuckers don't stretch. They are actually reuseable if need be, so that's a plus.
[last edit 11/22/2012 4:59 AM by budda - edited 2 times]
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Why couldn't you put the bunny back in the box? - Nicholas Cage |
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