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Posted by Samurai
first, has anyone stopped and considered that god is not an external entity, but rather an internal expression of what could be called the human condition, or human spirit?
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Yes, spot on.
Posted by Samurai
second, consider for a moment that yes, there was a jesus figure. Consider that the same guy was probably also Mohammed and Buddha?
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No, there were three dudes.
Siddhartha Gautama Buddha lived about 2500 years ago in India.
There was almost certainly a dude named Jesus in Palestine about 2000 years ago.
And Muhammad was a different guy who hung out a ways south of there 500 years later.
Of course, the stories that exist about those guys have merged with myth, other religions, fairy tales, and propaganda so who knows what the fuck was really going on. Of the three, I think the character of Jesus is probably the most fictionalized.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by MutantMandias
Yes, spot on.
No, there were three dudes.
Siddhartha Gautama Buddha lived about 2500 years ago in India.
There was almost certainly a dude named Jesus in Palestine about 2000 years ago.
And Muhammad was a different guy who hung out a ways south of there 500 years later.
Of course, the stories that exist about those guys have merged with myth, other religions, fairy tales, and propaganda so who knows what the fuck was really going on. Of the three, I think the character of Jesus is probably the most fictionalized.
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thats kind of what I was getting at, but fucked it up... i was working on taking a really beefy crap and lost my train of thought.
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Posted by Samurai
i was working on taking a really beefy crap and lost my train of thought.
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God works in mysterious ways
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by G to the Race
That isn't evangelical apathy but rather an apathy about your real condition. Whether people die in death camps or from a plane flown into a building has nothing to do with evangelism and everything to do w/why people fall prey to evangelizers, which is mostly because their economic conditions make them an easy mark. Should we stand up to St. Vincent DePaul and say, "Hey, quit feeding those poor people, you papists!"? No, the papist is doing good, regardless of his or her motive. Because I believe I should leave my fellow human beings alone about whatever it is that supports them when they lie awake wondering what's on the other side of life doesn't mean that I'm not going to reach out and help them when they are in need. I deal in the concrete every day, the abstractions w/which we choose to delude ourselves are not my concern. So, I will work to change the world for the better of my community. However if before it gets better you need help working with your local government to make your life better I can help, if you are in prison I can come visit you, if you are hungry I can give you a fish and I can teach you to fish. Whether or not you will go to the pearly gates, reach Nirvana, get 72 virgins or rot in a box doesn't concern me.
BTW, your examples are far too extreme, use something more believable and relate-able and you may get further. Look @ how mutantmandias does it, he's much less abrasive and thus that much more persuasive. 
Modify: grammar
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What I meant by evangelical apathy is that you are trying to bring others into your particular fold of apathy.
You are demanding respect for ideas that deserve none.
Passing out food with bibles for the wrong reasons is undoubtedly worse than just passing out food.
Once again you are trying to suggest that good acts would not happen without faith based organizations. This is faulty reasoning.
Those abstractions kill and oppress real people every day. They make us all dumber and stifle our exploration of our world and universe.
And you do nothing.
Apathy.
You are actively trying to convince others to do nothing,
Evangelical apathy.
BTW: my examples are not hypothetical. They are real. You know, concrete, examples of things that really happened and therefore by definition more solid and my arguments more valid. Because they really happened, they are therefore not extreme by definition.
You might recall, had you been to school in a nation that supports public education, the third reich really existed.
You might also remember, if you were not in a crib, that religious literalists crashed some planes into some buildings in NYC.
Both of these historical events were perpetrated by people that believed unreasonable ideas, and both were allowed to happen by many more people who lacked the moral courage to stand up and point that out.
Apathy.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by MutantMandias
There was almost certainly a dude named Jesus in Palestine about 2000 years ago.
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I think that it would be more accurate to say there was a chance that this person existed.
I know I can't prove a negative, however there is no physical evidence to suggest he existed.
There are no first hand accounts of his life.
The ONLY evidence is scripture and a few mentions in other written histories. These all appeared up to a century after his supposed death.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics. Robert A. Heinlen | |
Posted by tekriter
What I meant by evangelical apathy is that you are trying to bring others into your particular fold of apathy.
You are demanding respect for ideas that deserve none.
Passing out food with bibles for the wrong reasons is undoubtedly worse than just passing out food.
Once again you are trying to suggest that good acts would not happen without faith based organizations. This is faulty reasoning.
Those abstractions kill and oppress real people every day. They make us all dumber and stifle our exploration of our world and universe.
And you do nothing.
Apathy.
You are actively trying to convince others to do nothing,
Evangelical apathy.
BTW: my examples are not hypothetical. They are real. You know, concrete, examples of things that really happened and therefore by definition more solid and my arguments more valid. Because they really happened, they are therefore not extreme by definition.
You might recall, had you been to school in a nation that supports public education, the third reich really existed.
You might also remember, if you were not in a crib, that religious literalists crashed some planes into some buildings in NYC.
Both of these historical events were perpetrated by people that believed unreasonable ideas, and both were allowed to happen by many more people who lacked the moral courage to stand up and point that out.
Apathy.
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So your entire argument is that religion is a far more powerful force in the world than economic realities? In your universe it's more important for people to be alert of evil religions around them than to be aware that they are eating dirt for dinner? Newsflash: people have the constitutional right to be stupid and worship whatever they choose to worship, to rail against them doing so is to "tilt at windmills" whatever that means.
On your tone: just roll it back a tad, you prove to be just a bad as the evangelical christians you so despise when you don't.
You betcha | |
Posted by MutantMandias
Not sure where you're going there. "Padding" an invoice would be wrong by just about any analysis. It might be beneficial to the company, unless it is discovered, but it is harmful (dishonest/cheating) to the recipient. If it becomes a standard practice, it increases risk to the company, so the benefit is questionable.
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"Padding" might not be the best term. We had a client that was billed for equipment they didn't use, and when I said it should be taken off the invoice, I was told to leave it on. We're not talking a huge amount of money, but to me it was the principle of it.
“We are not going to have the kind of cooperation we need if everyone insists on their own narrow version of reality. … the great divide in the world today … is between people who have the courage to listen and those who are convinced that they already know it all.”
-Madeline Albright |
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