my 2007 Cobalt SS has an intercooler up front that is air to water. Now, is there any advantage in this setup? Would an air-to-air intercooler be better? No one, especially the fan boys on a couple of Delta and J-body forums could really give me a satisfactory answer.
See, I am trying to do all the legwork BEFORE I install the Stage II kit... I want to upgrade the mounts, a Magnaflow muffler (for that mellow bellow) and maybe change the intercooler setup.

So anyways... i turn to the circus that is the Car Talk forum for answers.

I don't really know, but this site seemed to have some pretty good answers.

Depends on many factors.

I can't think of a good reason for you to switch over to air-to-air other than to be just different, Samurai.

Water/liquid has better heat capacity than air (it allows greater cooling capacity), liquid to air intercoolers also work well at low speeds which is why I'm looking at one for my 4by.

You need air flow (i.e. speed) for air-air to work, but I spose this will be no problem for your car

This was a late night ramble, I think it all makes sense, hope it helped.

Fish

here's the deal. that is not your intercooler up front. you cobalt utilizes a roots-type supercharger. between the supercharger and the intake ports on your cylinder head is the intercooler. you have an independant cooling system for that setup and runs cool water through the fins inside the intake plenum to cool the discharge temps. roots blowers in their very nature are VERY susceptable to heat. this coolant flows through a reservoir and through the heat exchanger in the front bumper. simply stated, that is the 'radiator' for the intercooler system up front; not the intercooler itself.

converting over to an air-to-air setup would be next to impossible on your car.

you best bet for adding power to your existing boost level (which can only be altered by pulley changes), is to run a larger heat exchanger in the bumper and to run a higher water:coolant ratio with water wetter thrown into the mix.



on a quasi- related side note, if you ditch the supercharger setup all together, and go turbo, you need the non-ss alternator and will need to file down the aluminum idle boss on the front cover of the motor. it sucks. dont do it.

Posted by Durdan here's the deal. that is not your intercooler up front. you cobalt utilizes a roots-type supercharger. between the supercharger and the intake ports on your cylinder head is the intercooler. you have an independant cooling system for that setup and runs cool water through the fins inside the intake plenum to cool the discharge temps. roots blowers in their very nature are VERY susceptable to heat. this coolant flows through a reservoir and through the heat exchanger in the front bumper. simply stated, that is the 'radiator' for the intercooler system up front; not the intercooler itself. converting over to an air-to-air setup would be next to impossible on your car. you best bet for adding power to your existing boost level (which can only be altered by pulley changes), is to run a larger heat exchanger in the bumper and to run a higher water:coolant ratio with water wetter thrown into the mix. on a quasi- related side note, if you ditch the supercharger setup all together, and go turbo, you need the non-ss alternator and will need to file down the aluminum idle boss on the front cover of the motor. it sucks. dont do it.

i plan on keeping the car supercharged... there were very few SS Supercharged coupes built in 2007 as it was the last year for the package. The stage II package consists of a different sized pulley, different injections, different belt and a reflash on the computer. Why is it always referred to as an intercooler? Meh...

look into a watermeth kit, I dunno how they perform on Cobalts but in the BMW and Audi world they work wonders

watermeth is a bandaid for poor tuning, no thanks.




and people refer to them after intercoolers because they have no idea what they are talking about. just because someone references it as such, doesnt make it so.

Posted by Durdan watermeth is a bandaid for poor tuning, no thanks. and people refer to them after intercoolers because they have no idea what they are talking about. just because someone references it as such, doesnt make it so.

information i can use.
now what about this... the Grand Prix (W-body) used a bigger blower for the 3800 V6. That used a much larger heat exchanger... would it be worth the time to either order one from GM, find one in a salvage yard or find a 3rd party upgrade? I know that heat is the enemy... in the same vein I was also looking at a larger radiator as well. The car runs at 180F all day long, even when ambient is 95F. Would it be worth the expense?

i would. try to find one used first. that way it's cheaper... i mean, look at it this way. putting on a larger heat exchanger is like giving a dying man an enema. you *might* help him, but you sure as hell arent gonna hurt him.

heat is the biggest woe when it comes to roots blowers. dissipate as much as possible and make more power. but be careful! too cool of an air charge and your ecu may not have the calibration to handle it. but in this case, you're fine. get a bigger heat exchanger and see what it does. i would look into an air temp gauge, too. install that, see what your temps are. i'm willing to bet the farm that theyre in the 140 degree range. which is rediculous. throw the exchanger on, and then see what it does. also would be pretty cool to see before and after dyno numbers.

Posted by Durdan watermeth is a bandaid for poor tuning, no thanks. and people refer to them after intercoolers because they have no idea what they are talking about. just because someone references it as such, doesnt make it so.

i dunno what youve been told but the watermeth does wonders on application such as the 335's. its super easy to install and very cheap to run. On certain cars like saabs though it causes the engine to blow lol.

Couldn't we just spray some rubbin alky into the intake stream to cool the charge enough to make more power for the cost of a junkyard washerfluid tank and pump plus a lil hose and wire? That's what the redneck in me screams. Course I also have put gas in a washer fluid tank, ran the lines from the washer to the intake, belted in a nitro bottle and ran a hose to the intake, and fliped the knob while running the wiper/wash feature. Works good but kinda annoyin with the wipers running.

Posted by jeepdave Couldn't we just spray some rubbin alky into the intake stream to cool the charge enough to make more power for the cost of a junkyard washerfluid tank and pump plus a lil hose and wire? That's what the redneck in me screams. Course I also have put gas in a washer fluid tank, ran the lines from the washer to the intake, belted in a nitro bottle and ran a hose to the intake, and fliped the knob while running the wiper/wash feature. Works good but kinda annoyin with the wipers running.

thats pretty much a crude watermeth system you described

Posted by jeepdave Couldn't we just spray some rubbin alky into the intake stream to cool the charge enough to make more power for the cost of a junkyard washerfluid tank and pump plus a lil hose and wire? That's what the redneck in me screams. Course I also have put gas in a washer fluid tank, ran the lines from the washer to the intake, belted in a nitro bottle and ran a hose to the intake, and fliped the knob while running the wiper/wash feature. Works good but kinda annoyin with the wipers running.

thats pretty much a crude watermeth system you described

Posted by Durdan i would. try to find one used first. that way it's cheaper... i mean, look at it this way. putting on a larger heat exchanger is like giving a dying man an enema. you *might* help him, but you sure as hell arent gonna hurt him. heat is the biggest woe when it comes to roots blowers. dissipate as much as possible and make more power. but be careful! too cool of an air charge and your ecu may not have the calibration to handle it. but in this case, you're fine. get a bigger heat exchanger and see what it does. i would look into an air temp gauge, too. install that, see what your temps are. i'm willing to bet the farm that theyre in the 140 degree range. which is rediculous. throw the exchanger on, and then see what it does. also would be pretty cool to see before and after dyno numbers.

you know, i've never had a car on the dyno...

Posted by Nismo i dunno what youve been told but the watermeth does wonders on application such as the 335's. its super easy to install and very cheap to run. On certain cars like saabs though it causes the engine to blow lol.

"what ive been told" HAHAHA

meth injection is used primarily on vehicles that deem race gas use, but the person would rather run pump everyday. there are several underlying issues with meth that can't go unsaid.

1) your typical end user is not of sound mind enough to constantly monitor fluid levels. they will run their car on a meth-based tune, run out of meth without realizing and blow their motor

2) meth kits fail. there are very few on the market that utlize a control box that senses pressure fluctuations and will actually kill the pump if something goes wrong. once again, you can run into a situation where your ecu is tuned for running meth, but the kit isnt running. boom.

3) conversely, something else fails and the meth spray is not longer controlled. you then run into a hydrolock issue. boom.

4) despite what you think, the ecu MUST be tuned to handle the meth spray. this does not mean an SAF-C and youre fine. the timing and fuel tables must be adjusted. the meth does cool the charge, but it also displaces the amount of air being drawn in by liquid. yes, this is true. yes, i have verified this on the dyno.

i can go on and on. the ultimate solution is when you have a setup that constitutes a meth spray, you would be better off running racegas and tuning accordingly.

one of my friends had suggest that I run a 75-shot nitrous kit, you know, just for that edge... i have no love for nitrous. too much can go wrong all at once. I've seen improperly set-up nitrous kits blow engines, i've seen nitrous purges go bad and blow the front end/hood off a car while destroying the intake and sucking shards of shattered intake into their engines... i would rather have an engine that was built and tuned properly.

nismo I dont think you should be challenging Durdan about getting power out of a car.
I'm not trying to put you down in anyway but he knows his shit and speaks from experience, not what he's heard.

Im just saying watermeth if you have a quality kit and are smart enough to maintain it is a cheaper solution for some.