Posted by splumer Well, the only difference between "church" and "cult" is a church is larger and generally has mainstream acceptance. I don't think this place fits into either.

You're right, but common usage of the word "cult" implies what anthropologists call a "high demand religion". The film shows the Jesus Camp as having a lot of attributes of a high demand religion, although it is clearly hyped.

Posted by jeepdave You cannot tell me abortion is nothing more than being selfish, placing your life above another, killing the person who could have cured AIDS or cancer in their adult life.

I love this argument. You realize I can demonstrate mathematically (using tested median IQ balanced against the demographics [racial, educational, lifestyle, social, and marital status] of most women that get abortions) that we have a better chance of killing the next Hitler, Manson, or Idi Amin Dada than a Salk, Einstein, or Hawking.

We also may kill off the next Brittany Spears or Lindsy Lohan, which is so a plus...

Posted by jeepdave Sigh. Look, if someone gets preggo thru NO FAULT of their own I'm not gonna be a hard ass and say birth that baby. ...But I do smile at the thought of the other having to deal with their responsibilities.

Sounds like you want to punish people for acting upon a normal, biological drive. I cannot understand why-- sex is not the enemy.

Posted by jukebox fuckup Sounds like you want to punish people for acting upon a normal, biological drive. I cannot understand why-- sex is not the enemy.

No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. No more, no less. You have too many ways to prevent getting pregnant. We all have normal, biological drives. We also have self control. Thats why we don't piss while waiting in line or shit in the pool. Or just start jerking off when we see a hot chick. Thats what we have.

If you can't take the time to prevent pregnancy then you shouldn't take the time to have sex unless your ready for what may happen. Its pretty simple really.

Posted by jeepdave No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. No more, no less. You have too many ways to prevent getting pregnant. We all have normal, biological drives. We also have self control. Thats why we don't piss while waiting in line or shit in the pool. Or just start jerking off when we see a hot chick. Thats what we have.

+1

Posted by jeepdave No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. No more, no less. You have too many ways to prevent getting pregnant. We all have normal, biological drives. We also have self control. Thats why we don't piss while waiting in line or shit in the pool. Or just start jerking off when we see a hot chick. Thats what we have.

...I think people can make it through their lives without shitting themselves in public, but most people do not go through their lives without getting pregnant.

Also, the only way 100% to prevent pregnancy is the "A word"... abstinence contradicts natural, biological drives

Posted by jukebox fuckup ...I think people can make it through their lives without shitting themselves in public, but most people do not go through their lives without getting pregnant. Also, the only way 100% to prevent pregnancy is the "A word"... abstinence contradicts natural, biological drives

Most people will plan their pregnancy. And build a family. Not just fuck an run.

Posted by jeepdave Most people will plan their pregnancy. And build a family. Not just fuck an run.

I know you poopoo facts and statistics... but here ya go

49% of pregnancies are unplanned in 1994. 48% of all women have had an unplanned pregnancy (http://www.guttmac...rnals/3002498.html)

82% of teen pregnancies were unplanned in 1988 http://www.jstor.org/pss/2135494

in 1986, there were over 3 million unplanned pregnancies http://journals.lw...ted_States.29.aspx

look at the divorce rate/cheating behavior/single parent families... I am not 100% sure on the "building a family" part. People that are concerned about their families do not cheat on their partner

I would not be surprised if more than half of Americans reported ever having a one night stand in their lifetime.

Posted by jeepdave Most people will plan their pregnancy. And build a family. Not just fuck an run.

Both of my children were unplanned. Luckily, my wife & I were married at the time, and OK enough financially that we were able to raise them.

I would not be surprised if more than half of Americans reported ever having a one night stand in their lifetime.

I have. We used contraception, and as far as I know, it worked. Not everyone is so lucky. The real solution is to prevent the need for abortions in the first place. Countries in Europe have far more relaxed attitudes about sex and far lower teen birth rates, and far lower abortion rates, and I think that's something we all can agree on is a god idea.

I'm really on a "we can all agree" kick today. Must be the Vicodin I'm taking for my teeth.

Posted by splumer The real solution is to prevent the need for abortions in the first place.

Yes. And I believe thats a point jeepdave was trying to make.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Yes. And I believe thats a point jeepdave was trying to make.

you can't change the fact that people have always fucked, people are fucking right now, and people will always fuck... it is wishful thinking to expect people to engage in responsible sexual behavior, at best. Look at the numbers of highly conservative, Christian political figures that have gotten involved in a sex scandal or have drawn shame to their name!

Even many people that engage in responsible sexual behavior still end up doing something to their partner that results in a broken family in the future (ie. cheating, physical abuse, getting involved with drugs, ect)

Its too much to ask? Really? Too much to ask to take responsibility for your actions? Too much to ask that you wear a rubber or make your partner? And don't give me that "well that fails sometimes" because I fucking know. I have a daughter that resulted from a failed rubber. Ya know what. It wasn't her fault that she got conceived. So why should I have handed down a death sentence to her? Why I decided to be responsible, and raise her. And did it by myself for most of her life till her mom got her shit together. At 21 years of age I was a single father. And it was hard. I dropped out of college. I sold much of what I had and took extra jobs. Why? Because IT WASN'T THE CHILDS FAULT SHE EXISTED!!!


Is it too much to think of someone other than ones self?

Posted by jeepdave And did it by myself for most of her life till her mom got her shit together. At 21 years of age I was a single father. And it was hard. I dropped out of college. I sold much of what I had and took extra jobs. Why? Because IT WASN'T THE CHILDS FAULT SHE EXISTED!!!

All of this was a decision that you engaged in knowingly and willingly. Anybody can get knocked up past the age of 12. Does that make them a hero if they elect to have a child? No.

I wouldn't want to be born into a family that did not want me or could not handle a child. Being self-righteous is not always fair to the collection of cells that could potentially become a child.

See I would want to be born into that family. At least then I would have a chance. Life is not guaranteed to be fair, easy, or what you want.

Posted by jeepdave See I would want to be born into that family. At least then I would have a chance. Life is not guaranteed to be fair, easy, or what you want.

ya wanna be born into a family like my buddy's, who was thrown into the foster care system because his mother got busted for drugs and his father did not want him?


Or what about my friend, whose earlier memories were her crying and throwing a temper tantrum, hoping that she would get daddy to beat on her, rather than punch around her pregnant mother?



Neither of them ended up being bad people by a long shot, but they are not god fearing, Christian conservatives, either ;D

Posted by jukebox fuckup ya wanna be born into a family like my buddy's, who was thrown into the foster care system because his mother got busted for drugs and his father did not want him? Or what about my friend, whose earlier memories were her crying and throwing a temper tantrum, hoping that she would get daddy to beat on her, rather than punch around her pregnant mother? Neither of them ended up being bad people by a long shot, but they are not god fearing, Christian conservatives, either ;D

But their alive, so I would say that's better than the alternative.

Ok, back to Jesus camp. You can open a new thread on the abortion/right to live/religious thing if you want to.

Posted by atomx Ok, back to Jesus camp. You can open a new thread on the abortion/right to live/religious thing if you want to.

Sorry hoss, I call truce in this thread. Didn't mean to derail it this bad. Back to camp.