forums
new posts
donate
UER Store
events
location db
db map
search
members
faq
terms of service
privacy policy
register
login




1 2 3 4  
UER Forum > Canada: Ontario > A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law (Viewed 123335 times)
Intrinsic 


Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 398 likes




 |  | 
A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< on 4/4/2009 11:18 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
A Guide to Ontario’s Trespassing Law - Version 1.0


Table of Contents

Introduction
The Law
1) What is the exact law pertaining to trespass within the province of Ontario?
2) If I want to approach a property to ask for permission, is that in itself an act of trespass?
3) How is private property marked? Is there a specific format to be used for signage?
4) So I decide to trespass on someone’s property and the owner attempts to detain me. Are they legally allowed to detain me?
5) I am pretty scared now after reading all of this. What happens if I simply drive off after the property owner sees me?
6) What is the best policy to follow if confronted?
7) Is trespassing a criminal offence? Will I have a criminal record?
8) What is the charge for a TPA offence?
9) What is the process for making a citizen’s arrest?
10) Are there any defences for the TPA?
11) What happens when a motor vehicle is used in the commission of trespass?
12) Are there any limitations on trespassing charges?
13) What are some options to protect myself online?
Closing Comments

Disclaimer: This text file article is not intended to be legal advice nor is it intended to be interpreted as legal advice. The creator of this article accepts no responsibility for any criminal or civil damages that may arise out of use of the information contained in this article. The creator of this article makes no guarantee to the accuracy, legality, relevance, timeliness, or completeness of information contained herein. This article is for informational purposes only.


Introduction

The hobby that we refer to as ‘urban exploration’ is unlike other hobbies in the sense that it may involve access to property that may not belong to us. For this reason it is important to be aware of the trespassing laws as they apply to Ontario. This message is not meant to help you break the law – it is to educate you as to the legalities of trespass.

If you are interested in exploring a location that does not belong to you, don’t become discouraged. Access is often available by going through the proper channels. This may involve a phone call to the property owner, knocking on the front door, or simply asking a security guard for access.

This article is not meant to assist you in breaking the law; it is meant to better help you understand the law. It is hoped that you will try all legal channels when you visit a location.

Finally under NO circumstances should you ever force your way into a location. There is a difference between trespassing and break & enter.

On a personal note, when looking at exploring any location for the first time, I will always try to ascertain the property owner first and seek permission to visit their property. This article will not focus on the ethical or moral issues – it is only to serve as an informational guide.


The Law

Before we discuss the law itself we need to define some key terms:

"occupier" includes,
(a) a person who is in physical possession of premises, or
(b) a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of premises or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the premises,
even if there is more than one occupier of the same premises; ("occupant")

"premises" means lands and structures, or either of them, and includes,
(a) water,
(b) ships and vessels,
(c) trailers and portable structures designed or used for residence, business or shelter,
(d) trains, railway cars, vehicles and aircraft, except while in operation. ("lieux") R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 1 (1).

In other words, when the term ‘premises’ is used within this article it could be referencing a boat, trailer, railway car, plane, shed, house, barn, building, etc.

night” is defined as the hours between 9 pm and 6 am.

TPA refers to the “Trespass to Property Act”


Contents

1) What is the exact law pertaining to trespass within the province of Ontario?

The law pertaining to trespass is covered under the Revised Statutes of Ontario (RSO), specifically R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER T.21.

Section 2, subsection 1 states that:

Trespass an offence
2. (1) Every person who is not acting under a right or authority conferred by law and who,
(a) without the express permission of the occupier, the proof of which rests on the
defendant,
(i) enters on premises when entry is prohibited under this Act, or
(ii) engages in an activity on premises when the activity is prohibited under this Act; or

(b) does not leave the premises immediately after he or she is directed to do so by the occupier of the premises or a person authorized by the occupier,
is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $2,000. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 2 (1).

Translation: You must be acting under a right or authority to be on the property (example: you have been given permission, caretaker, security, etc.). The burden of proof rests on you to prove that you have the permission of the property owner to be on his/her property. You could be found guilty of trespassing if you are inside a dwelling or involved in an activity on property (eg. camping or hunting). You could also be found guilty if you do not leave the premises when asked to do so by the occupier or someone authorized to speak for them.

Example: If you are asked to leave property by a neighbor, and that neighbor has been given the authority to act on the behalf of the property owner, you are guilty of trespass if you refuse to leave.


2) If I want to approach a property to ask for permission, is that in itself an act of trespass?

No. Section 3, subsection (2) states that:

Implied permission to use approach to door
(2)There is a presumption that access for lawful purposes to the door of a building on premises by a means apparently provided and used for the purpose of access is not prohibited. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 3 (2).

Translation: If there is a door located on a property, it is presumed that access to that door is not prohibited as long as you are using it for legal reasons and that the door is for the purpose of entering and leaving.


3) How is private property marked? Is there a specific format to be used for signage?

This is defined in sections 5 to 7 of the TPA:

Method of giving notice
5. (1) A notice under this Act may be given,
(a) orally or in writing;
(b) by means of signs posted so that a sign is clearly visible in daylight under normal conditions from the approach to each ordinary point of access to the premises to which it applies; or
(c) by means of the marking system set out in section 7. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 5 (1).

Form of sign

6. (1) A sign naming an activity or showing a graphic representation of an activity is sufficient for the purpose of giving notice that the activity is permitted. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 6 (1).

Example: A picture of a swimming means that swimming is permitted.

Idem

(2) A sign naming an activity with an oblique line drawn through the name or showing a graphic representation of an activity with an oblique line drawn through the representation is sufficient for the purpose of giving notice that the activity is prohibited. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 6 (2).

Example: A picture of a swimmer with a line through him means no swimming is permitted.


Red markings

7. (1) Red markings made and posted in accordance with subsections (3) and (4) are sufficient for the purpose of giving notice that entry on the premises is prohibited. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 7 (1).

Yellow markings

(2) Yellow markings made and posted in accordance with subsections (3) and (4) are sufficient for the purpose of giving notice that entry is prohibited except for the purpose of certain activities and shall be deemed to be notice of the activities permitted. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 7 (2).

Size

(3) A marking under this section shall be of such a size that a circle ten centimetres in diameter can be contained wholly within it. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 7 (3).

Posting

(4) Markings under this section shall be so placed that a marking is clearly visible in daylight under normal conditions from the approach to each ordinary point of access to the premises to which it applies. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 7 (4).

Translation: Section 7 basically means that a large red dot is sufficient notice to warn you that trespassing is not permitted. A yellow dot means that certain activities are permitted.

In areas such as a lawn, orchards or vineyards no notice is required. It is implied that this land is private property.


4) I decide to trespass on someone’s property and the owner attempts to detain me. Are they legally allowed to detain me?

Yes, and so are the police.

Section 9 of the TPA states that:

Arrest without warrant on premises

9. (1) A police officer, or the occupier of premises, or a person authorized by the occupier may arrest without warrant any person he or she believes on reasonable and probable grounds to be on the premises in contravention of section 2. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 9 (1).

This further means that a neighbor may detain you if they are authorized to do so. Note that if you are detained by the property owner or someone acting on their behalf and you attempt to forcefully leave, you are RESISTING ARREST. This could upgrade what is a Provincial Offence to a Criminal Offence.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING PRIVATE ARREST

Upon being detained by the property owner, they MUST turn you over to a police officer. The Trespass to Property Act has a civilian arrest authority but no civilian release authority.

The arresting person cannot 'change their mind', 'give you a break' or 'get you off the property and let you go'! Nor can your supervisor, or any other civilian authority release them or order you to release them.

Once arrested, you must be turned over to the police. Period! Anything else could result in the person arresting you, being charged or sued.

This is stated in Section 9, subsection 2:

(2) Where the person who makes an arrest under subsection (1) is not a police officer, he or she shall promptly call for the assistance of a police officer and give the person arrested into the custody of the police officer. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 9 (2).


5) I am pretty scared now after reading all of this. What happens if I simply drive off after the property owner sees me?

It is important to note that once you leave the property, you are not yet out of the woods. Section 10 states that:

Arrest without warrant off premises

10. Where a police officer believes on reasonable and probable grounds that a person has been in contravention of section 2 and has made fresh departure from the premises, and the person refuses to give his or her name and address, or there are reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the name or address given is false, the police officer may arrest the person without warrant. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 10.

In other words, if you get in your car and drive away, the property owner has a few options. They might decide to let the issue go, they might decide to go after you, or they might choose to phone the police. If the police are phoned, they do have the right to stop your vehicle. If they believe that you are giving them false information upon being stopped, you may be arrested.

The best policy is to always provide your TRUE identity to the police.


6) What is the best policy to follow if confronted?

Keeping in mind that this article is for informational purposes only and not legal advice, I am going to suggest that the best policy is to simply approach the property owner when confronted. The possibilities are:

- They may become angry with you, demand to know what you’re doing, and ask you to leave
- They will simply ask you to leave
- The two of you will engage in friendly conversation when they realize that you are only packing a camera and have an interest in their location

or worst case scenario..

- They will attempt to detain you and phone the police

In all reality, unless you are trespassing inside of an active building such as a hotel, hospital, have broken into a property or are vandalizing a location, it's not all that likely that someone will try to detain you. This is not to say that they could not phone the police once you depart – as they could.

Also, if you are trespassing on a location with security present – you have an increased chance of being detained. This may not occur but it has happened at locations such as Edgar.


Alternatives to speaking to the property owner

If your vehicle is parked in a hidden location and not seen by the property owner, you might choose to run away. In my experience, although property owners have sometimes shown some hostility towards us, once they see the camera, maps and hear our stories, they let us leave. We have never felt it necessary to run.


7) Is trespassing a criminal offence? Will I have a criminal record?

No. Trespassing falls under the Provincial Offences Act, which means that it falls under provincial legislation. There is no criminal record involved. It is quite similar to receiving a speeding ticket except in that case it would be a Highway Traffic Act offence.

You should know however that it could be a crime if you trespass by night (9pm-6am):

Section 177 of the Criminal Code of Canada states that:

177. Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, loiters or prowls at night on the property of another person near a dwelling-house situated on that property is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. [R.S., c.C-34, s.173.]

Translation: If you have an excuse, the burden of which can be proven, such as your missing dog running out from the bushes, you are likely to be let go. If you are caught in the bushes of an occupied house without a legitimate reason, you are in serious trouble.

Note that this must occur at night, not the daytime.


8) What is the fine for a TPA offence?

It is approximately $65 and can be paid at your local Provincial Offences Office. Other alternatives include pleading not guilty or requesting more time to pay the fine.


9) What is the process for making a citizen’s arrest?

A citizen’s arrest would be when a property owner or a security guard detained you. The process should be as follows:

a) The person should identify themselves and state to you that you are under arrest.
b) The person should lightly touch you on the shoulder or elbow to indicate that they are in control of the situation.
c) The person must give you a reason for being arrested, this is a requirement under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
d) Advise you of your right to legal counsel under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

This can also be used to your advantage. Let’s say that a security guard or private citizen attempted to arrest you for trespassing on property. They approached you and told you that you were under arrest and to wait until the police arrived. The police arrive and take you into custody.

What’s missing from this? The security guard or property owner did not advise you of WHY you were being arrested. This forms the basis of a great defense and having the charge thrown out, but this advice should be sought from a legal representative.


10) Are there any defences for the TPA?

Trespassing is considered an “absolute liability” offence which means that it is up to you to prove your innocence, not for the accuser to prove your guilt. There are however two defenses to the Trespass Act:

a) “color of right” – A person believes that they have an honest belief that they had an interest in or title to the land in question, which would allow them to do as they wished on the land. An example to this would be a neighbor who places a fence on property that he thought was his. If an opposing neighbor establishes that the fence is on his property, the original neighbor would not be charged because he had an honest belief that the fence was on his property. This would be difficult to use as a defence for urban exploring.

b) “implied permission” – it is implied that a front door of a house will be used to receive visitors. A person wishing to speak to the owner of the premises is expected to use the front door and is not trespassing unless a notice is posted indicating otherwise.


11) What happens when a motor vehicle is used in the commission of trespass?

If a vehicle has been found to have been involved in the commission of trespassing, the owner of the vehicle is liable for the offence and resulting fine. This applies if the operator of the vehicle cannot be identified. A police officer pointing out this fact may not have any difficulty in persuading the registered owner of the vehicle to identify the person who borrowed it.

Therefore if you have borrowed your father’s vehicle and commit trespass with it, if you are caught then you will face the resulting trespass charge. If you are not identified but the vehicle is, then your father is liable for the charge.


12) Are there any limitations on trespassing charges?

Explorers enjoy posting their photos online to sites such as Flickr and Facebook. The question is, could a person be charged with trespassing after the fact?

The answer might surprise you. There is a six-month limitation on Provincial Offences beginning from the date that the offence occurred.

Let’s say that you visit a location on March 11, 2009 and post photos of the location to your Flickr account on March 30, 2009. The owner of the location phones police on October 1, 2009 and they investigate your Flickr account. By this time the limitation period will have expired (six months from March 11, 2009).

In essence there is a statute of limitations on the Trespass to Property Act. Be forewarned though that it is possible, by appearing before a Justice of the Peace, to have that time period increased.


13) What are some options to protect myself online?

If you are really concerned about your privacy online and posting photos, then you will need to take extra precautions to hide your identity. This is a difficult process because you will need to do it each and every time you access your online account(s). Due to the slowness of anonymous surfing utilities, it is best to create an anonymous persona only for locations of sensitive value and to use your public persona for all others.

If you had to rely on anonymous services for 100% of your urban exploring surfing, you would become too frustrated given the slow bandwidth which can result.

The best way to hide your online Facebook/Flickr usage is by using TOR. TOR stands for The Onion Router. It works like this: packets leaving your computer are encrypted in layers (like an onion) and sent out to three different servers located around the world. After they stop at each server, a layer is removed from the packet and sent on to the next server. When your packet reaches the final server, it is then forwarded to the actual website you intended it for.

For example if you were using TOR to access UER, your packet would be encrypted with three layers (of onion?) and sent out to Germany where the first layer would be removed, then sent on to Denmark where the second layer would be removed and then sent to the final server located in England. From the final server in England your packet would be sent to UER. For all intents and purposes, the web traffic would look like you were coming from England. (note that the countries used in the example above may vary).

If you choose to use this means to post to Facebook or Flickr you will also want to make sure not to use a Hotmail account to register those accounts UNLESS you used TOR to create that Hotmail account. It would defeat the purpose if the Hotmail account gave up your true identity wouldn’t it?

Aside from TOR being too slow for continuous UER use, you must also realize that each time you use TOR you appear from a different country because the three servers are always different. It might be concluded that you were “sharing” your account with other people even if you really aren’t – because of the different countries that you’re coming in from.

TOR is best used for those locations you want to post to external photo-sharing sites that you don’t need to ever go back and update again. It can be downloaded from www.torproject.org

Essentially all you need to do is to set your proxy settings to 127.0.0.1 and your port to 8118 and then begin surfing.

Another anonymous surfing program is JonDo (formerly JAP). It works much the same way that TOR works and can often be quicker. It may be found here:
http://anon.inf.tu...n.de/index_en.html


Closing Comments

The Trespass to Property Act is meant to protect property owners from other citizens being on their land. This is any citizen’s right as I’m sure you would not appreciate people traveling from across Ontario to snoop through your backyard either.

If you are approached by a property owner, consider trying to set the precedent for future explorers. Be friendly and courteous and explain the reason for your presence. Show them your equipment, explain the historic significance behind their building and why you are interested in their buildings. Many people are willing to discuss the history of their property if given the opportunity. Permission is often only a phone call away.

There is nothing to be lost by being courteous. Being rude and ignorant will only make it more difficult (or police involvement more likely) for the next explorer.

Running away may even result in the property owner attempting to detain future explorers. Consider the “primal instinct” in which we want to chase those that seek to escape us.

Someting else to consider: this all depends on what you are exploring. There is a difference between an encounter with a senior citizen owning a farmhouse and a young security guard protecting a vacant hospital. One might be seeking someone to talk to while the other might be seeking to make himself look good via an arrest.

On a personal note: during the last decade I've only been confronted three times. In all three cases the property owners let me go or went on to show me around the area.

Use your best judgment and remember to “Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints”.



[last edit 4/4/2009 11:42 PM by Intrinsic - edited 3 times]

ntdtom 


Total Likes: 1 like




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 1 on 4/4/2009 11:23 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Good Stuff,

Anyone that I have asked for permission to take some shots has said no problem.




phrenzee 


Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 152 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 2 on 4/5/2009 12:05 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Interesting. I wasn't aware of #12.




N1Hawk 


Location: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 2 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 3 on 4/5/2009 12:07 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Great work on this info! Thanks for letting us know the Trespassing laws in Ontario!




argonian 


Location: Toronto, ON
Gender: Female
Total Likes: 5 likes


"Now with added cats!"

 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 4 on 4/5/2009 12:10 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
You certainly are a provider of information. You should run the rookie forum. You are fighting an excellent fight against repeat questions.




Que pasa, baby?
hilite 


Gender: Male
Total Likes: 104 likes


don't destroy my sweater....

 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 5 on 4/5/2009 12:22 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
I have no knowledge of law, but neways

Does posting images on-line, in the eyes of the law constitute that you were
a) at that location?
b) the one one taking the photos?


Can you argue that merely posting pictures is no crime, b/c there's no proof that you were taking them?

or will they then just book you for copyright infringement.




And when you finally disappear, We'll just say you were never here.

yokes 


Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 566 likes


I aim to misbehave

 |  |  | AIM Message | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 6 on 4/5/2009 1:28 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Another piece of advice is to strip out the EXIF data from your photos, so the take taken won't appear on places like Flickr.




"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
Intrinsic 


Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 398 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 7 on 4/5/2009 1:39 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Posted by phrenzee
Interesting. I wasn't aware of #12.


Yes, being a summary offence there is a six-month time limit unless they decide to proceed indictable and there is no way trespassing is an indictable offence.

Posted by N1Hawk
Great work on this info! Thanks for letting us know the Trespassing laws in Ontario!


Thank you

Posted by argonian
You certainly are a provider of information. You should run the rookie forum. You are fighting an excellent fight against repeat questions.


I have a soft spot for newcomers but I'm not sure that I'd want to run the forum for rookies. I'd be content with a Donated Time Star though

Posted by HI-LITE
Does posting images on-line, in the eyes of the law constitute that you were
a) at that location?
b) the one one taking the photos?


Can you argue that merely posting pictures is no crime, b/c there's no proof that you were taking them?

or will they then just book you for copyright infringement.


Those are valid questions and open the door for a revised Guide. At this point I do not know the answer. The answer to the first two questions would be 'no' and 'no'. What's to stop someone from going to Flickr/Myspace/Facebook and using images taken from there.

The consideration to be made is, as an absolute liability offence, the onus is on YOU to prove that you weren't the person who took the images. This is difficult because that's like saying, prove that I wasn't at McDonald's in 2007 at any given date, any given time that cannot be determined.

Copyright infringment is an entirely different matter. If you drive by my house and photograph it, or come into my yard and photograph my shed, I can't claim that I own copyright to the image - that image is yours. The issue of trespass remains.

Posted by yokes
Another piece of advice is to strip out the EXIF data from your photos, so the take taken won't appear on places like Flickr.


Noted. I should mention that these guides are written by me (not cut and pasted from elsewhere) but they are for UER's use which means that input from other members is welcomed and encouraged. I will not presume to speak for everyone.






unlisted 


Gender: Male
Total Likes: 0 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 8 on 4/5/2009 2:21 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Posted by Intrinsic
A Guide to Ontario’s Trespassing Law - Version 1.0


Table of Contents

Introduction
The Law

7) Is trespassing a criminal offence? Will I have a criminal record?


Disclaimer: This text file article is not intended to be legal advice nor is it intended to be interpreted as legal advice. The creator of this article accepts no responsibility for any criminal or civil damages that may arise out of use of the information contained in this article. The creator of this article makes no guarantee to the accuracy, legality, relevance, timeliness, or completeness of information contained herein. This article is for informational purposes only.



7) Is trespassing a criminal offence? Will I have a criminal record?

No. Trespassing falls under the Provincial Offences Act, which means that it falls under provincial legislation. There is no criminal record involved. It is quite similar to receiving a speeding ticket except in that case it would be a Highway Traffic Act offence.

You should know however that it could be a crime if you trespass by night (9pm-6am):

Section 177 of the Criminal Code of Canada states that:

177. Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, loiters or prowls at night on the property of another person near a dwelling-house situated on that property is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. [R.S., c.C-34, s.173.]

Translation: If you have an excuse, the burden of which can be proven, such as your missing dog running out from the bushes, you are likely to be let go. If you are caught in the bushes of an occupied house without a legitimate reason, you are in serious trouble.

Note that this must occur at night, not the daytime.





Just to elaborate on this one, since Section 177 of the Criminal Code is pretty scary..

Trespassing at night

177. Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, loiters or prowls at night on the property of another person near a dwelling-house situated on that property is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 173.


Now, please keep in mind, this is not a light charge in any way. It can affect the rest of your life. The reason for this is Section 177 of the Criminal Code falls under this:

PART V
SEXUAL OFFENCES, PUBLIC MORALS AND DISORDERLY CONDUCT


So ya, don't go and UE near a house at night. Daytime is much safer from a legal standpoint, and for your own safety. (easier to notice tripping hazards, etc) Claiming your just there to take photos of an abandoned building will not fly too well either, considering your near a house, at night, with a camera that could be used to take photos through a window.. (which would be yet another Criminal Code charge- section 162-multiple subsections)

Don't ever expect "I'm a urban explorer" excuse to fly at night near a house.

If your really bored, here is a link to the criminal code http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/




unlisted 


Gender: Male
Total Likes: 0 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 9 on 4/5/2009 2:24 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
I vote for this to be a sticky!




strangePlaces 


Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 128 likes




 |  |  | Add to ICQ
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 10 on 4/5/2009 6:11 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
so i suppose the answer for "can i be held liable for uploading videos ti youtube?" would be the same - prove you are NOT the one doing them?

Probably as defence, one can say that
"my friend is doing the field work i'm just cutting and i'm not going to say who that is".

On the bright side, how likely it is get sued on charges of trespassing? Namely, the plaintiffs cant get much profit from winning the case. I saw ppl post vids of walking in the subway during operation - that's much more serious offense - endangerment of lives of others - and still, nobody s after them.




www.concretechronicles.com
jake baker 


Location: toronto
Total Likes: 0 likes


life is short stunt it

 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 11 on 4/6/2009 6:32 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
good to know




bourbonbaby 


Gender: Male
Total Likes: 2 likes




 |  |  | My Flickr Photostream
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 12 on 4/6/2009 7:21 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
outstanding!




http://www.flickr.com/photos/wojtek/
vapula 


Location: kitchener, ontario
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 0 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 13 on 4/10/2009 11:40 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
nice job man! a very informative read




.....wah?
exkalibur 

Stop, or I'll ask you again!


Location: Anywhere but here.
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 2 likes


Sirens make me hard.

 |  |  | Yahoo! IM | AIM Message | What'cha gonna do when I come for you?
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 14 on 4/11/2009 3:15 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Mobile
*fantastic* guide, very factual and very accurate.

The only thing I would add are a few Criminal Code sections which apply to trespassing.

First is section 41.

41.1: Everyone who is in peaceful posession of a dwelling-house or real property, and everyone lawfully assisting or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.

This means that an owner/occupier can use force to remove you, even if he/she chooses not to arrest you.

41.2: A trespasser who resists an attempt by a person who is in peaceful posession of a dwelling-house or real property, or a person lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority to prevent entry or to remove him, shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.

So...if you're told you are under arrest, and you resist...not only can you get done for resisting arrest, you are, by colour of law, commiting assault.

Assault is a very serious criminal charge.

And...

Section 37: Everyone is justified in using force to defend himself or anyone under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it.

In english...

Force can be used to remove you. If you resist, you're commiting assault, and force can be used to prevent, stop and defend against it.

In other words, if you ARE placed under arrest, or told to GTFO - don't be a dummy. Co-operate.



[last edit 4/11/2009 3:16 PM by exkalibur - edited 1 times]

Unit calling radio say again?
Intrinsic 


Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 398 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 15 on 4/11/2009 4:05 PM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Posted by exkalibur
*fantastic* guide, very factual and very accurate.


Thank you. You raised some good points with the resisting and use of force, which should be added into the article. I'll get on this shortly.





Cochiseg 


Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 0 likes


Scary rabbit, isn't it?

 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 16 on 6/3/2009 12:05 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Number 12 surprised me a bit too. thanks for sharing those! also the part on anonymous browsing is pretty good. I didnt know about that, but i would have used public proxys if i need to use a fake identity




Intrinsic 


Location: Collingwood
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 398 likes




 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 17 on 6/3/2009 12:11 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Proxies tend to keep logs and the ones that claim not to are questionable. With TOR or even JAP (Jon Do) there are no logs as each hop is different. Even if exit node data is logged by the person running the TOR server, he/she has no way of knowing where it originated.

Keep it legal though and you won't need to use one... right? Right! *nudge*




bourbonbaby 


Gender: Male
Total Likes: 2 likes




 |  |  | My Flickr Photostream
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 18 on 6/3/2009 12:37 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
Posted by exkalibur
*fantastic* guide, very factual and very accurate.

The only thing I would add are a few Criminal Code sections which apply to trespassing.

First is section 41.

41.1: Everyone who is in peaceful posession of a dwelling-house or real property, and everyone lawfully assisting or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.

This means that an owner/occupier can use force to remove you, even if he/she chooses not to arrest you.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are misinterpreting it there. You can ONLY use force if you ask someone to leave and they refuse to do so, and at that point it is only the amount of force nescessary to get them to leave, ie grabbing someone and pulling them off of your property, not beating them with a lead pipe.


41.2: A trespasser who resists an attempt by a person who is in peaceful posession of a dwelling-house or real property, or a person lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority to prevent entry or to remove him, shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.

So...if you're told you are under arrest, and you resist...not only can you get done for resisting arrest, you are, by colour of law, commiting assault.





In english...

Force can be used to remove you. If you resist, you're commiting assault, and force can be used to prevent, stop and defend against it.

In other words, if you ARE placed under arrest, or told to GTFO - don't be a dummy. Co-operate.



This all comes back to someone refusing to comply. I worked for 5 years as a bouncer in a very violent bar. We had to know this aspect of the code very well. you can't lay a hand on someone unless they refuse to leave, and at that point 'nescessary force' is a VERY delicate balance. If you ask someone to get off your line, and they refuse, and you beat the god fearing shit out of them with a bat when they say 'no' then you are the one that is going to get charged with assault.




http://www.flickr.com/photos/wojtek/
rz350 

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.


Location: toronto
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 0 likes


The looniest, zaniest, spontaneous, sporadic Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict

 |  | 
Re: A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law
< Reply # 19 on 6/4/2009 9:15 AM >
Reply with Quote
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
and remember, for them folks that like to explore old military facilities. if it is still DND property, all persons, vehicles and property are subject to warrantless search at anytime, for any reason.

In addition to tresspass laws under the NDA which are a bit different from provinical ones.

depending on the facility and its SOP's and routine orders, the use of force could be nasty.

if caught on DND property, co-operate like a submissive little biatch, as you've lost most of your rights just by being there.



[last edit 6/4/2009 9:19 AM by rz350 - edited 1 times]

ducky 999
UER Forum > Canada: Ontario > A Guide to Ontario's Trespassing Law (Viewed 123335 times)
1 2 3 4  


Add a poll to this thread



This thread is currently Public. Anyone, including search engines, may see it.



All content and images copyright 2002-2019 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire.
To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT
View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield
This page was generated for you in 156 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 593077023 pages have been generated.