Posted by Kbasa I hate the layout of all the tools in office 07, it feels like its made for idiots (American public?). They laid it out so that you can click large buttons to get the style type and format, but i hate scrolling through them to find the style and font and all that bullshit. Its mostly just supposed to be pretty i guess...

Yeah I'm not a big fan of endless scrolls, or the "pretty" new MS look.
I'm afraid to even look after seeing the mess that MS made out of setting's Control Panel and Display Properties in Vista.
You can't make something that is inherently complicated and complex, simple without loosing functionality and flexibility.
Made by idiots, for idiots, and supported by foreigners that barely speak English and need all the help they can get. swell.

Posted by blackhawk I'm afraid to even look after seeing the mess that MS made out of setting's Control Panel and Display Properties in Vista.

What the fuck are you talking about? The default Vista Control Panel makes a hell off a lot more sense than the default XP Control Panel. And, just like XP, you can easily switch back to the Classic listing view at any time. But, unlike XP, it is easy and obvious how to switch back and forth between the Classic View and the visual, categorized view.

Switching to Classic view is always one of my first steps on XP, since the XP Control Panel is a just confusing, badly designed mess. The default Vista Control Panel is 10 times better.

Posted by MutantMandias What the fuck are you talking about? The default Vista Control Panel makes a hell off a lot more sense than the default XP Control Panel. And, just like XP, you can easily switch back to the Classic listing view at any time. But, unlike XP, it is easy and obvious how to switch back and forth between the Classic View and the visual, categorized view. Switching to Classic view is always one of my first steps on XP, since the XP Control Panel is a just confusing, badly designed mess. The default Vista Control Panel is 10 times better.

Which one? The new one? Ba-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Classic view is a bloody mess of unneeded trash most don't need and can't delete.
Interactive help in '98 was better.
Vista is dope friendly, but after that it all goes to hell.
So sophisticated it doesn't need an index from the Help section. yeah right.

MS decided to try to fix an interface that wasn't broke, and just made more of a mess.

I don't understand what in the hell you're talking about regarding the Help section. I have never found any use for Windows help, and have always been annoyed that you cannot permanently turn off the Windows Help services in XP.

But if you want to use it, Vista Help has a freaking navigable Table of Contents, and you can type in a search term. What the hell more do you need?

Posted by MutantMandias I don't understand what in the hell you're talking about regarding the Help section. I have never found any use for Windows help, and have always been annoyed that you cannot permanently turn off the Windows Help services in XP. But if you want to use it, Vista Help has a freaking navigable Table of Contents, and you can type in a search term. What the hell more do you need?

You are such a moron. An index is specific, table of contents is general.
Most of us don't have your big brain and since the Help section is the best info reference for this new OS, it is a handicap not to have an index, and totally senseless.
You and Vista prolly get along great; you both lack common sense.



In·dex
1. (in a nonfiction book, monograph, etc.) a more or less detailed alphabetical listing of names, places, and topics along with the numbers of the pages on which they are mentioned or discussed, usually included in or constituting the back matter.
2. a sequential arrangement of material, esp. in alphabetical or numerical order.
3. something used or serving to point out; a sign, token, or indication: a true index of his character.
4. something that directs attention to some fact, condition, etc.; a guiding principle.
5. a pointer or indicator in a scientific instrument.
6. a piece of wood, metal, or the like, serving as a pointer or indicator.
7. Computers.
a. a value that identifies and is used to locate a particular element within a data array or table.
b. a reference table that contains the keys or references needed to address data items.
8. Also called fist, hand. Printing. a sign in the shape of a hand with extended index finger, used to point out a particular note, paragraph, etc.
9. a light, smooth cardboard stock.
10. the forefinger.
.
c. a subscript or superscript indicating the position of an object in a series of similar objects, as the subscripts 1, 2, and 3 in the series x1, x2,
17. (usually initial capital letter) any list of forbidden or otherwise restricted material deemed morally or politically harmful by authorities: an Index of disapproved books relating to Communism.
18. Optics. index of refraction.
19. Obsolete.
a. a table of contents.
b. a preface or prologue.
–verb (used with object)
20. to provide with an index, as a book.

Yes, thank you. I am quite familiar with the word "index."

And, since you had previously been ranting about the missing "index function," as opposed to a simple index, I assumed that you understood the meanings of the word as well.

The Help does indeed rely upon an index function, since, as I mentioned, there is a search box where you can enter words and get what seem to be pretty good results, if you have any kind of rudimentary understanding of general computer use.

No, it does not apparently expose a listing of every word and topic included in the help database. A list index, as you understand it, exists as a tool only because there was no better way to search for specific items in a printed book. It is a tool of extremely limited use, however, since you still have to understand what it is you are looking for, and how they included it in the index to be able to find it.

An indexed search function, on the other hand, (which is a part of Vista Help) is much more useful. You might be having a problem with your printer. Using a list index, you can find all topics that begin with "Printer," which might be useful, but a search run against the indexed content will give you all topics that include the word "Printer," such as topics centered around "Spooling," and "Queuing."

So, thanks for the dictionary entry, dad. You is smart.

Posted by MutantMandias Yes, thank you. I am quite familiar with the word "index." And, since you had previously been ranting about the missing "index function," as opposed to a simple index, I assumed that you understood the meanings of the word as well. The Help does indeed rely upon an index function, since, as I mentioned, there is a search box where you can enter words and get what seem to be pretty good results, if you have any kind of rudimentary understanding of general computer use. No, it does not apparently expose a listing of every word and topic included in the help database. A list index, as you understand it, exists as a tool only because there was no better way to search for specific items in a printed book. It is a tool of extremely limited use, however, since you still have to understand what it is you are looking for, and how they included it in the index to be able to find it. An indexed search function, on the other hand, (which is a part of Vista Help) is much more useful. You might be having a problem with your printer. Using a list index, you can find all topics that begin with "Printer," which might be useful, but a search run against the indexed content will give you all topics that include the word "Printer," such as topics centered around "Spooling," and "Queuing." So, thanks for the dictionary entry, dad. You is smart.

Jeeeeezse... wrong! The index for the Help section which the idiots at MS omitted on Vista; it's present in XP.

In·dex
1. (in a nonfiction book, monograph, etc.) a more or less detailed alphabetical listing of names, places, and topics along with the numbers of the pages on which they are mentioned or discussed, usually included in or constituting the back matter.

If you listened as good as you chatter you might learn something.
Like most folks there are sections of XP you never used, and the same is true with Vista. So don't go thinking just because Vista fits your criteria, that it's equal to XP Pro in many ways because it's clearly not.

Even MS admits to Bill Gates negative impact on Vista; at it's root level it's flawed.
It will never live up to it's full potential because of mistakes made in it's kernel design at the start of the design cycle.
A complete redesign will be needed.

Posted by blackhawk It will never live up to it's full potential because of mistakes made in it's kernel design at the start of the design cycle. A complete redesign will be needed.

Again you show how little you know. For all Windows' faults (both Vista and previous versions) the NT kernel is not one of them. The stuff running on top of the kernel is sometimes shitty, but not the kernel itself. Vista's kernel made small improvements on the already very good NT kernel. No redesign needed.

Posted by blackhawk Jeeeeezse... wrong! The index for the Help section which the idiots at MS omitted on Vista; it's present in XP. In·dex 1. (in a nonfiction book, monograph, etc.) a more or less detailed alphabetical listing of names, places, and topics along with the numbers of the pages on which they are mentioned or discussed, usually included in or constituting the back matter.

That's exactly what I said. You apparently have a limited understanding of not only computers, but also the English language.

Posted by blackhawk Even MS admits to Bill Gates negative impact on Vista; at it's root level it's flawed. It will never live up to it's full potential because of mistakes made in it's kernel design at the start of the design cycle. A complete redesign will be needed.

Okay. I keep forgetting. You are just a made up character. Damn, you are convincing at times.

Posted by Washu Again you show how little you know. For all Windows' faults (both Vista and previous versions) the NT kernel is not one of them. The stuff running on top of the kernel is sometimes shitty, but not the kernel itself. Vista's kernel made small improvements on the already very good NT kernel. No redesign needed.

Yeah you right about that, although feel free to name what that mysterious layer is called all knowing one.
The net result is still the same; Vista will never be fixable as they are still buried too deep; only a redesigned OS will fix the flaws. Even with it's good kernel.
Happy?

Posted by blackhawk Yeah you right about that, although feel free to name what that mysterious layer is called all knowing one. The net result is still the same; Vista will never be fixable as they are still buried too deep; only a redesigned OS will fix the flaws. Even with it's good kernel. Happy?

Actually, why don't you tell me. How will Vista as an operating system never be fixable? What magical thing is broken about it? Every technical reason you have posted so far has been false. A new control panel layout and a missing help feature (which is nitpicking at best) does not a flawed OS make.

Posted by Washu Actually, why don't you tell me. How will Vista as an operating system never be fixable? What magical thing is broken about it? Every technical reason you have posted so far has been false. A new control panel layout and a missing help feature (which is nitpicking at best) does not a flawed OS make.

I posted it before, and I'm not incline to search for it. MS's response, sales, and, FTC complaints/lawsuits will bear out true or false my statements are or aren't.

MS is already in a defensive posture, trying to stop bootleggers at the customers expense.
They aren't generating the response they had hoped for...

Let's let time say is right.
I'm a patient bastard.

Posted by blackhawk I posted it before, and I'm not incline to search for it. MS's response, sales, and, FTC complaints/lawsuits will bear out true or false my statements are or aren't. MS is already in a defensive posture, trying to stop bootleggers at the customers expense. They aren't generating the response they had hoped for... Let's let time say is right. I'm a patient bastard.

You so crazy.

Posted by blackhawk I posted it before, and I'm not incline to search for it. MS's response, sales, and, FTC complaints/lawsuits will bear out true or false my statements are or aren't.

No, popularity has nothing to do with how good or bad an OS is technically (look at BeOS). Vista being a flop or the most popular OS ever doesn't change what it is as an OS. You claimed that Vista was flawed on a technical level and every reason you posted thus far was either ignorant or an outright lie.

Posted by Washu No, popularity has nothing to do with how good or bad an OS is technically (look at BeOS). Vista being a flop or the most popular OS ever doesn't change what it is as an OS. You claimed that Vista was flawed on a technical level and every reason you posted thus far was either ignorant or an outright lie.

Popularity is a very good way to gage this OS.
Computer manufactures are back peddling to make XP Pro an option since at least April because of disgruntled customers.

Vista is flawed throughout. Where's the index for the Help section?
There are more examples of the whopper of a falsehood you just posted.
Some from MS sources.

Posted by blackhawk Vista is flawed throughout. Where's the index for the Help section? There are more examples of the whopper of a falsehood you just posted. Some from MS sources.

Do you even know the difference between OS and user levels? Apparently not. The help file having a minor issue does not an OS flaw make. It's like saying MSPaint (or GIMP on Linux) doesn't have red. It's not a OS technical issue.

Posted by Washu Do you even know the difference between OS and user levels? Apparently not. The help file having a minor issue does not an OS flaw make. It's like saying MSPaint (or GIMP on Linux) doesn't have red. It's not a OS technical issue.

I really expected better from you.
This isn't even your thread, and so far Professor Chaos has giving a more believable endorsement of Vista than you or MM.

I think I was quite lucid in the way I stated that, including the exact definition of the form of the word "index" that I was referring to.
It's the mere fact the there's no Help index for an OS where you need all the help you can get finding features, settings and functions is telling in it's self.
This isn't an original though of my own, but it's quit obvious when trying to use Vista that some setting controls aren't easily found. The default security settings are obnoxious... and a pain to tract down to turn off.

I'm not buying your double talk today.
All you achieved with this line of rhetoric is to eroded any sense of fair play I once thought you had.

Posted by blackhawk I really expected better from you. This isn't even your thread, and so far Professor Chaos has giving a more believable endorsement of Vista than you or MM.

Who said I was endorsing Vista? I'm not, I'm only countering the BS you are posting about it. Knowing how something works and what it can do are not the same as endorsing it.

I think I was quite lucid in the way I stated that, including the exact definition of the form of the word "index" that I was referring to.

I'm not debating if the help function has an index or not, or if it's useful. I personally don't care. What I am pointing out and you are ignorant of is that the help function is not part of the OS core and has no bearing on if it's a good OS or not technically. Included with an OS is quite different then part of an OS.

It's the mere fact the there's no Help index for an OS where you need all the help you can get finding features, settings and functions is telling in it's self. This isn't an original though of my own, but it's quit obvious when trying to use Vista that some setting controls aren't easily found. The default security settings are obnoxious... and a pain to tract down to turn off.

You understand enough to want to alter the default security of Vista yet you need the help function? Sorry, not buying it. You obviously know very little about Windows and computers in general and are just spouting crap you read or made up. Just because you heard "UAC sucks" doesn't make you knowledgeable about Vista.

I'm not buying your double talk today. All you achieved with this line of rhetoric is to eroded any sense of fair play I once thought you had.

What fair play? I'm not the one making false claims about what Vista can and cannot do, you are. Or do I need to remind you of your previous claims? Lets start with your claim of Vista not de-allocating program memory after close. Anyone with even a tiny bit of OS knowledge would know this to be false and easily provable, so you are either very ignorant for your claimed level of knowledge or lying.

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