Seeing as I do not see a thread of this exact nature (and if there is one, I'm a moron):

Do(es) (g)od(s) exist?


Here's my answer:

In the traditional religious sense of a truly interacting father/mother/ethereal entity, I do not believe so.

Anything beyond that, and the actual definition of what a god would entail, I am uncertain of.

To me, God represents the mysterious driving force behind all that exists. I have often supposed that this "force" could be the meta-reality; that is, the world beyond all that exists. From a purely scientific standpoint, this would be the nothingness (or everything, perhaps) which the Universe, by virtue of the big bang, began expanding into.

I would have to say that I believe God is somewhat the sum of parts.....the overall thing that is made up by the collective consciousness of everything, or maybe the thing that our collective consciousness comes from. I don't believe in an actual personal type entity but rather a sort of energy, pure thought and consciousness in form. similar to your theory I guess.

I definitely don't believe in how typical religions portray him as some overseer that demands this or that, or that we even be a certain way. I'm maybe along a more gnostic type point of view, which I'm still not too certain if I go along with fully.

Heaven and Hell...to me, it's all right here, maybe different realities vibrating at different frequencies that will one day be explained by Quantum Physics. I don't believe we die and go elsewhere, just exist in a different form possibly.

Regardless, I would have to say that I believe God does exist just not in the way organized religion would like you to believe.

Posted by Seek In Shadows Regardless, I would have to say that I believe God does exist just not in the way organized religion would like you to believe.

Seconded.
Down with organized religion... archaic brainwashing has to end.

Posted by mynameisglass Seconded. Down with organized religion... archaic brainwashing has to end.

Effective, mind you.

Edit: For clarification, I meant at organizing people who share commonalities (imbued by the Religion, or otherwise.)

Posted by Seek In Shadows God is somewhat the sum of parts...the overall thing that is made up by the collective consciousness of everything, or maybe the thing that our collective consciousness comes from. I don't believe in an actual personal type entity but rather a sort of energy, pure thought and consciousness in form. I definitely don't believe in how typical religions portray him as some overseer that demands this or that, or that we even be a certain way. I'm maybe along a more gnostic type point of view, which I'm still not too certain if I go along with fully. Heaven and Hell...to me, it's all right here, maybe different realities vibrating at different frequencies that will one day be explained by Quantum Physics. I don't believe we die and go elsewhere, just exist in a different form possibly. Regardless, I would have to say that I believe God does exist just not in the way organized religion would like you to believe.

You've crystalized the essence of my thoughts eloquently. Kudos.

Well thank you KublaKhan...I thought I was fumbling through the whole thing but it must have turned out better than what I was perceiving it, lol.

Maybe God is in Xanandu? (and if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll feel stupid)

Posted by Seek In Shadows Well thank you KublaKhan...I thought I was fumbling through the whole thing but it must have turned out better than what I was perceiving it, lol. Maybe God is in Xanandu? (and if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll feel stupid)

Yeah...I get it.

As a related question, Where do you think our ideas of right and wrong come from? We all for the most part believe that it is wrong to torture babies or rape women. Where does this come from?

Posted by Max-Heapify As a related question, Where do you think our ideas of right and wrong come from? We all for the most part believe that it is wrong to torture babies or rape women. Where does this come from?

Fox News?

It is quite clear to me that we are born with general ideas of right and wrong already in place in our minds. (Hence your allusion to actions that most all people view as being wrong.)

Posted by katwoman It is quite clear to me that we are born with general ideas of right and wrong already in place in our minds. (Hence your allusion to actions that most all people view as being wrong.)

Do you mean that, once free of the womb, we are AWARE of morality and the consequences of immorality?

Well, perhaps it comes out of free will. If an individual learns at an early age that they want to be able to do something of their own choosing, they soon realize that they hope others have the same ability. I don't think it's ingrained morality.

Posted by KublaKhan Do you mean that, once free of the womb, we are AWARE of morality and the consequences of immorality?

Once we grow up a bit and get to the age where we think about such things; yes. More so the morality issue, though. I don't think the consequences of immorality (i.e. heaven or hell) are known to the same degree as morality.

I believe that someone deep in the jungle, having never seen a church building, read a Bible, or heard of "Jesus Christ" could still be a Christian based on their beliefs about their place in the world and a being who is in charge of it all. So to answer Max-Heapify's question, I believe that inclinations of right and wrong are "implanted" in each of us. It's our choice whether we want to listen to those inclinations or ignore them.

Posted by katwoman I believe that someone deep in the jungle, having never seen a church building, read a Bible, or heard of "Jesus Christ" could still be a Christian based on their beliefs about their place in the world and a being who is in charge of it all. I believe that inclinations of right and wrong are "implanted" in each of us. It's our choice whether we want to listen to those inclinations or ignore them.

What do you mean by 'someone deep in the jungle'?

I get the feeling that you're offering that Christianity has a specific corner on the market viz. a viz. 'morality,' and that those who live by a certain 'moral code' are necessarily Christian, in that their individual code...the guy living in the jungle (whatever that means)...conforms to specifically Christian moral values.

Something like that?

Or maybe that their values are, while not Christian in his mind, simply values shared across any number of faiths/beliefs by any number of groups/individuals.

In other words, what YOU see as Christian values may be something he sees as [insert 'jungle religion/belief,' etc. here], or maybe he hasn't even considered these values along the lines of religious orthodoxy blah blah blah.

Posted by KublaKhan What do you mean by 'someone deep in the jungle'?

I meant someone who lives in the jungle, (or in a secluded desert, a tiny country town, or a remote island for that matter) who has never seen a church building, never read a Bible, or heard of "Jesus Christ." In other words, someone who has never been exposed to any tangible object or ritual of Christianity.


Contrary to the way my previous post appears to have been understood, I believe that there is only one way to heaven. I am not a pluralist by any means. Just because someone shares a specific moral code, their eternal destination is not guaranteed. It is not necessary for all the Christian and so-called Christian rituals to be in place for one to truely live a Christian life. God doesn't need a church building or a preacher to make himself known to someone.

Posted by katwoman I believe that there is only one way to heaven.

...and that way is through Christ?

Yes

Posted by katwoman Yes

So then.

If I'm NOT a Christian...and I willing choose NOT to be a Christian, I am denied access to Heaven™?

Posted by KublaKhan So then. If I'm NOT a Christian...and I willing choose NOT to be a Christian, I am denied access to Heaven™?

No, you're forced into their by views that "the ignorant" of God's children will be saved... Or something equally as imposing.

Posted by KublaKhan If I'm NOT a Christian...and I willing choose NOT to be a Christian, I am denied access to Heaven™?

It may sound harsh, but yes.