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UER Forum > Canada: Alberta / BC > Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels. (Viewed 1411763 times)
yellow_wallpaper 


Location: Victoria, Canada
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1880 on 1/22/2008 7:35 PM >
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I haven't seen the tunnels, but I don't see what a golf cart would be useful for (other than transporting drugs, which happens in plain sight anyway).


Maybe its a rogue 80 yr old golfer using downtown as the ultimate course?




"...let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure." - Dumbledore
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1881 on 1/22/2008 8:02 PM >
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Posted by yellow_wallpaper
I haven't seen the tunnels, but I don't see what a golf cart would be useful for (other than transporting drugs, which happens in plain sight anyway).


Maybe its a rogue 80 yr old golfer using downtown as the ultimate course?



My thoughts exactly.




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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yoshkow 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1882 on 1/23/2008 2:48 AM >
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Posted by yellow_wallpaper
I haven't seen the tunnels, but I don't see what a golf cart would be useful for (other than transporting drugs, which happens in plain sight anyway).


Maybe its a rogue 80 yr old golfer using downtown as the ultimate course?


Posted by KublaKhan


My thoughts exactly.


...the Victoria Scottish Society maybe...Par equals 400...

www.scottishgolfhi...thGolfers1867B.jpg

Edit: Made wide inline picture into a link ~Wang



[last edit 1/24/2008 1:33 AM by Emperor Wang - edited 1 times]

“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
yoshkow 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1883 on 1/23/2008 2:53 AM >
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Posted by KublaKhan

The general area around there is, to the best of my knowledge, solid bedrock. One doesn't dig through solid bedrock.



and

Posted by J Peterman

Last night, amidst the moonlight. The intrepid Garden City Gardeners; A. Lien, Tanuki, KublaKhan and JPeterman, accompanied by special guests dsankt and Team Leader set foot into a tunnel conduit deep beneath the city of Victoria.

This conduit is burrowed through solid bedrock. The existence of this conduit proves that that there could be even more tunnels blasted straight through bedrock elsewhere in this city.



Hey KK, I'm not calling you a liar, but I wonder if you could explain...

Yoshkow




“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
A. Lien 


Location: Fantasy Island B.C.
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Abductees Anonymous all welcome

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1884 on 1/23/2008 3:39 AM >
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In polite Victorian society, one doesn't, (cough) dig through solid bedrock. However, the history of this tunnelicious town is anything but polite.

The scrumptious veneer of (truly pleasant) high tea at the Empress serves as a delightful foil for the darker side of things.

I've recently heard talk of 'lay lines', no, not those 1 900 phone sex conduits, but lines of geographical power. Apparently three major ones cross here. Some (with this knowledge) say this is an angry town. And suggest these power lines contribute.












My sister is Charlotte Light and Dark. Who am I?

Farewell and thank you... "I was doing something that I thought could have some impact someday. In many ways, it's really these photographs that kept me going creatively." Dennis Hopper
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1885 on 1/23/2008 4:15 AM >
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Posted by yoshkow

Hey KK, I'm not calling you a liar, but I wonder if you could explain...

Yoshkow



Sure...

Posted by A. Lien
In polite Victorian society, one doesn't, (cough) dig through
solid bedrock. However, the history of this tunnelicious town is anything but polite.

The scrumptious veneer of (truly pleasant) high tea at the Empress serves as a delightful foil for the darker side of things.

I've recently heard talk of 'lay lines', no, not
those 1 900 phone sex conduits, but lines of geographical power. Apparently three major ones cross here. Some (with this knowledge) say
this is an angry town. And suggest these power lines contribute.



I think A.Lien's been drinking (again). Let me put it this way: 150 years ago, the gold rush summoned 20,000 miners from all four corners of the globe. I know. ..a globe is a sphere and a sphere doesn't have corners. Whatever.

Some of these miners decided...or were commissioned to...blast a tunnel through almost 2 km's of this bedrock. The tunnel is still there, and can be accessed by CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED and be sure to check tide charts. And for Christ's sake DO NOT tell anyone that I told you how to get in.



[last edit 1/24/2008 3:55 AM by KublaKhan - edited 2 times]

"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Team Leader 

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1886 on 1/23/2008 6:11 AM >
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I will attest its true, all true. What were we calling that dank place

The Tomb of the rat




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yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1887 on 1/23/2008 7:06 AM >
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Thanks for the explanation KK and A.Lien...I need a button to remove those censors. Maybe a couple of pitchers some time...to start...

I found this recently:

http://www.hallman...dian/victoria.html

Thought it might be of some historical interest to y'all. About 150 years ago you say? Sounds about right to me if you were to need secret tunnels.




“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
HermanHesse 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1888 on 1/23/2008 11:47 AM >
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This is what it is...

According to a random cement truck driver I got into a conversation with at lunch:

His company got paid by the city to pour cement into a tunnel that was accidentally uncovered that ran from Harold St under Dragon Ally and into China town.

Also it is rumored that Fan Tan Ally is three stories high/deep.




yellow_wallpaper 


Location: Victoria, Canada
Total Likes: 5 likes


If you're not dirty, you're not doing it right.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1889 on 1/23/2008 1:45 PM >
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Posted by yoshkow

...the Victoria Scottish Society maybe...Par equals 400...

http://www.scottis...thGolfers1867B.jpg



Ahhh disgruntled men... KK, is that you I see on the far left? ;)


Posted by KublaKhanI think A.Lien's been drinking (again). Let me put it this way: 150 years ago, the gold rush summoned 20,000 miners from all four corners of the globe. I know. ..a globe is a sphere and a sphere doesn't have corners. Whatever.

Some of these miners decided...or were commissioned to...blast a tunnel through almost 2 km's of this bedrock. The tunnel is still there, and can be accessed by CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED and be sure to check tide charts. And for Christ's sake DO NOT tell anyone that I told you how to get in.


Why exactly were they commissioned to dig through bedrock? Construction?






"...let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure." - Dumbledore
A. Lien 


Location: Fantasy Island B.C.
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 16 likes


Abductees Anonymous all welcome

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1890 on 1/24/2008 2:09 AM >
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Posted by HermanHesse
...I think I'm going to leave this forum soon with a sense of certainty that these so called secret tunnels do not exist.



"This is what it is...

According to a random cement truck driver I got into a conversation with at lunch:

His company got paid by the city to pour cement into a tunnel that was accidentally uncovered that ran from Harold St under Dragon Ally and into China town.

Also it is rumored that Fan Tan Ally is three stories high/deep."



Glad you are having second thoughts about leaving/disbelieving.

Not quite as easy as you may think, the leaving thing...

I was in an under sidewalk space where one end had been totally filled with concrete. Not even a barricade wall was built. Was like someone had poured dough into a bread pan with one end missing.

I believe what you heard is +/- .000666 99.3% likely to be true. Keep asking questions and interrogating people. You Germans are especially good at it.

(Hope that last comment was not outta line)


P.S. "Also it is rumored that Fan Tan Ally is three stories high/deep."

No rumor, just look up from the walkway.




My sister is Charlotte Light and Dark. Who am I?

Farewell and thank you... "I was doing something that I thought could have some impact someday. In many ways, it's really these photographs that kept me going creatively." Dennis Hopper
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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I think someone is listening.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1891 on 1/24/2008 3:47 AM >
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So I have been messing around in the archives and I constructed this very preliminary map of Victoria downtown streets. It is based on addresses listed in the 1863 city directory:

95225.jpg (90 kb, 794x526)
click to view


I know Victoria was bigger than this, but it's just a start...

I couldn't find modern day equivalents to Kane, Rae, James Bay, and Maclure. I figure one of them has to be Cook, another Fairfield, and another Belleville. James Bay must be Dallas Rd. A little research would easily find that information, I'm sure.

The reason I am doing this is because I am convinced that we could find all the tunnels in Victoria based on where structures existed when the tunnels were dug/blasted. Nobody is going to tunnel to the middle of nowhere, right? KK, you said the tunnels you saw are about 150 years old; that makes the structures existing in the 1850's and 1860's starting and ending points for tunnels (assuming that the tunnels were blasted within a decade or two and that no tunnels were blasted after that time).

This is just a small, rough start, but I would eventually like to write a little program that shows what structures and roads existed given an input date. With that time lapse information, the location of tunnel entrances and exits should just jump out at us. (I realize most access points are probably barred or destroyed now.)

Has anybody, in their archival research, run across specific translations of the street numbers in 1905/7 and the translations for the old to modern street names?

Lots of work ahead...
Yoshkow





“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
J Peterman 


Location: Victoria B.C.
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 5 likes


I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1892 on 1/24/2008 4:06 AM >
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With that time lapse information, the location of tunnel entrances and exits should just jump out at us


Highly unlikely. I can state with assurance from experience of extreme accuracy that there is not just a large myriad of tunnels snaking under all old buildings beneath the city. It is just simply a geographically obstructed impossibility. Not to say there arent large individual tunnels/conduits here and there.

As you've probably seen Yoshkow, there are many extended conduits which run along the perimeters of many downtown blocks (just beneath the sidewalks) But these are far from many of the "authentic" known tunnels or conduits meant for other purposes. A quick glance into the history of the city reveals nearly all there is to know about the cities "tunnels". Besides Chinatown itself, the need for SECRET underground tunnels is and never was present. I am sorry to say that Victoria's underground is not at all like this:

http://www.tunnelsofmoosejaw.com/

In many ways, it is comforting to know that the few tunnels that are around (for varying purposes, weather it be simple drainage or utility or ....the unknown) are not being exploited (right word??) like in Moosejaw. That is not to say that tunnel tours in Moosejaw exploit people, but perhaps the very tunnels and the myths themselves.

JP.




If zombies take over, and you end up going to universal studios, let me know..I will meet you there
yellow_wallpaper 


Location: Victoria, Canada
Total Likes: 5 likes


If you're not dirty, you're not doing it right.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1893 on 1/24/2008 4:28 AM >
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Posted by yoshkow
So I have been messing around in the archives and I constructed this very preliminary map of Victoria downtown streets. It is based on addresses listed in the 1863 city directory:

95225.jpg (90 kb, 794x526)
click to view


I know Victoria was bigger than this, but it's just a start...

I couldn't find modern day equivalents to Kane, Rae, James Bay, and Maclure. I figure one of them has to be Cook, another Fairfield, and another Belleville. James Bay must be Dallas Rd. A little research would easily find that information, I'm sure.

The reason I am doing this is because I am convinced that we could find all the tunnels in Victoria based on where structures existed when the tunnels were dug/blasted. Nobody is going to tunnel to the middle of nowhere, right? KK, you said the tunnels you saw are about 150 years old; that makes the structures existing in the 1850's and 1860's starting and ending points for tunnels (assuming that the tunnels were blasted within a decade or two and that no tunnels were blasted after that time).

This is just a small, rough start, but I would eventually like to write a little program that shows what structures and roads existed given an input date. With that time lapse information, the location of tunnel entrances and exits should just jump out at us. (I realize most access points are probably barred or destroyed now.)

Has anybody, in their archival research, run across specific translations of the street numbers in 1905/7 and the translations for the old to modern street names?

Lots of work ahead...
Yoshkow





That's cool.

I had an old family friend whose father owned a paint and oil store downtown on Fort. I have old city of victoria census info from the late 1800s, with old street names and the like. I'll dig out of my hope chest this weekend.



[last edit 1/24/2008 4:29 AM by yellow_wallpaper - edited 1 times]

"...let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure." - Dumbledore
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 187 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1894 on 1/24/2008 4:35 AM >
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Posted by yoshkow
So I have been messing around in the archives and I constructed this very preliminary map of Victoria downtown streets. It is based on addresses javascript:high()listed in the 1863 city directory:

95225.jpg (90 kb, 794x526)
click to view


I know Victoria was bigger than this, but it's just a start...

I couldn't find modern day equivalents to Kane, Rae, James Bay, and Maclure. I figure one of them has to be Cook, another Fairfield, and another Belleville. James Bay must be Dallas Rd. A little research would easily find that information, I'm sure.

The reason I am doing this is because I am convinced that we could find all the tunnels in Victoria based on where structures existed when the tunnels were dug/blasted. Nobody is going to tunnel to the middle of nowhere, right? ; that makes the structures existing in the 1850's and 1860's starting and ending points for tunnels (assuming that the tunnels were blasted within a decade or two and that no tunnels were blasted after that time).

This is just a small, rough start, but I would eventually like to write a little program that shows what structures and roads existed given an input date. With that time lapse information, the location of tunnel entrances and exits should just jump out at us. (I realize most access points are probably barred or destroyed now.)

Has anybody, in their archival research, run across specific translations of the street numbers in 1905/7 and the translations for the old to modern street names?

Lots of work ahead...
Yoshkow




Actually, what I said was that 150 years ago, 20,000 miners something something blah blah blah.

...and now that I re-read, I can see the misunderstanding. What I meant was that 150 years ago, Victoria kinda turned into a start point for the gold rush, and the city's economy flourished around that industry.

Do a bit of homework along the lines of what were some of the industries that sprang up around oh say...Rock Bay. For example. Think of things one might require in a mining-type endeavour. The kinds of supplies...dangerous goods. Etc. etc.

Now consider the amount of blasting that goes on around d/t today. One needn't blow shit up good to do a decent job of creating a pit into which one may construct a um...condo. For example. One needn't blast the neighbourhood to smithereens. It's really quite subtle. And if the blasting is conducted underground (and even within city limits) it isn't impossible to do this without being conspicuous.

Something like that.




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1895 on 1/24/2008 5:25 AM >
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Posted by J Peterman

I can state with assurance from experience of extreme accuracy that there is not just a large myriad of tunnels snaking under all old buildings beneath the city. It is just simply a geographically obstructed impossibility.



Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I didn't mean to imply that the road grid of the era directly mirrors the tunnel system, nor that every structure connects to a tunnel. I just mean that if we could accurately enough gauge the date of tunnel genesis, we could look for a correspondence between existing structures and tunnel openings. I don't think the tunnels would lead to the middle of a field (though maybe a body of water), but rather, more likely, the basement of an existing structure.

Posted by J Peterman

In many ways, it is comforting to know that the few tunnels that are around (for varying purposes, weather it be simple drainage or utility or ....the unknown) are not being exploited (right word??) like in Moosejaw. That is not to say that tunnel tours in Moosejaw exploit people, but perhaps the very tunnels and the myths themselves.



Well said...and definitely the "right word". Is it not the very action of exploitation that robs the beauty from the beautiful? Out of curiosity, how endangered are these tunnels from city officials or wannabe UEers? How much time is left for few of us to discover this gem of Victoria? I feel like everyday some new condo is going up and some tunnel must be cemented in...







“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1896 on 1/24/2008 5:27 AM >
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Posted by yellow_wallpaper

That's cool.

I had an old family friend whose father owned a paint and oil store downtown on Fort. I have old city of victoria census info from the late 1800s, with old street names and the like. I'll dig out of my hope chest this weekend.



Thanks; that could definitely prove helpful.




“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
Gender: Male
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I think someone is listening.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1897 on 1/24/2008 5:50 AM >
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Posted by KublaKhan

Actually, what I said was that 150 years ago, 20,000 miners something something blah blah blah.

...and now that I re-read, I can see the misunderstanding. What I meant was that 150 years ago, Victoria kinda turned into a start point for the gold rush, and the city's economy flourished around that industry.



Oops...my bad. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by KublaKhan

Do a bit of homework along the lines of what were some of the industries that sprang up around oh say...Rock Bay. For example. Think of things one might require in a mining-type endeavour. The kinds of supplies...dangerous goods. Etc. etc.



Thanks for the advice. In my research will the decade be obvious? How old do you think the tunnels are? Not that I disbelieve you, but why would the equipment have to come from Rock Bay? Couldn't it have come earlier from Nanaimo and other mining facilities already in place on the mainland?

Here is a quote from p.47 of a book by Macdonald, Duncan George Forbes (1823?-1884):

"As early as June 1856, Governor Douglas reported to the Secretary of State the discovery of gold in British Columbia....the announcement was received, however, with comparative disbelief until June 1858, when the reported wealth of the Fraser River mines produced an excitement..."

So, by the late 1850's there was mining equipment just across the pond. Couldn't the tunnels be that old?

Yoshkow





“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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I think someone is listening.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1898 on 1/24/2008 6:09 AM >
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Posted by KublaKhan


And if the blasting is conducted underground (and even within city limits) it isn't impossible to do this without being conspicuous.



...like golf carts are inconspicuous...

I had to read that a few times -
"isn't" + "impossible" + "without" = negative, right?





“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1899 on 1/24/2008 9:57 AM >
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u guys r righteous




UER Forum > Canada: Alberta / BC > Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels. (Viewed 1411763 times)
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