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UER Forum > Canada: Alberta / BC > Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels. (Viewed 1352904 times)
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 187 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1240 on 1/4/2007 11:09 PM >
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Posted by Tanuki

I have this fantasy of Scottish war tunes coming up through the sewers all over Victoria.



I knew it. You're a weirdo.



I just watched a movie about tanukis taking over the world. It's called Pom Poko.



I knew it. You have imperial ambitions.




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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surekill 


Location: Victoria, BC.
Gender: Male
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I like tacos

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1241 on 1/5/2007 4:03 AM >
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Posted by Tanuki
Surekill, are you sure about that with carbon monoxide? I would think that given the ideal gas law and all that, CO would change in density the same as the rest of the air. It's about the same density as air (CO is slightly lighter, but not significantly), so it won't particularly sink, but it can collect in enclosed spaces. Carbon dioxide will, however, sink.


Maybe I got the two mixed up somehow. I read these random things on the internet and sometimes I get duped! I remember it saying that somewhere and it looking official. What you said makes sense to me though. Anyway, the only way I could see it happening with CO is if it had something to do with the specific heat capacity of the gas allowing it to cool quicker than the rest of the air somehow. If it was coming out of car exhaust it would be hot and would rise up even quicker though. Meh...who knows!




bailey_ca 


Location: Victoria BC
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1242 on 1/9/2007 11:19 AM >
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Posted by J Peterman
Hmm I wonder if anyone has a wrecking ball we can borrow. Yes this archway is the most peculiar of the arches down along Wharf St.


I would kill a man love to gain access to the other side of that archway.


This old HBC "door" has always fascinated me. Judging by these photos, it looks like it would be a straight pass-through the warehouse-- there's a similar door at the same level on the rear of the building-- best for loading stuff directly to/from ships?


76143.jpg (73 kb, 620x459)
click to view


76142.jpg (83 kb, 620x473)
click to view


76141.jpg (96 kb, 620x434)
click to view






IBMhasme 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1243 on 1/9/2007 8:46 PM >
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MAMA!
To be on the inside of this nowadays... I wonder if it was all filled or?


Dang image is 101kb! Anyway it's a view from inside the SUB-BASEMENT of the Bay warehouse looking out into the harbour... mmm... You can find it on the Archives site, searching to Warehouses.





[last edit 1/9/2007 8:57 PM by IBMhasme - edited 1 times]

hey!
Tanuki 


Location: Victoria, BC
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1244 on 1/9/2007 8:55 PM >
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Posted by IBMhasme
MAMA!
To be on the inside of this nowadays... I wonder if it was all filled or?
http://www.bcarchi...ir_100/a_00596.gif



I just get a file not found page... What picture are you posting? Can you try again?



[last edit 1/10/2007 7:40 AM by Tanuki - edited 1 times]

IBMhasme 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1245 on 1/9/2007 8:58 PM >
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Sorry, the link won't past properly and the image is too big, check the bc archives site and search for Warehouse.
Search for 'a_00596.gif'



[last edit 1/9/2007 9:00 PM by IBMhasme - edited 1 times]

hey!
bailey_ca 


Location: Victoria BC
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1246 on 1/10/2007 1:05 AM >
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Posted by IBMhasme
Sorry, the link won't past properly and the image is too big, check the bc archives site and search for Warehouse.
Search for 'a_00596.gif'


This one?
76156.jpg (93 kb, 620x473)
click to view


Edit: Interesting, this building was built much earlier than I would've thought; there's a picture in BCARS dated ca. 1862.

According to Uvic (which always ruins everything fun with "logic" ): "On Wharf street across from the Rithet building, you can find doors set into a stone and brick wall. These tunnels were used for loading goods into the warehouses that stood here."



[last edit 1/10/2007 2:02 AM by bailey_ca - edited 1 times]

ShadowCaster 


Location: Victoria, BC (Home of the tunnels)
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1247 on 1/11/2007 2:53 AM >
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Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
Hey guys. Judging from the past few pages, I can tell you were all really worried about my sudden disappearance. Have no fear, I have returned to hold together Victoria's UE forum, once again! I've been busy recovering from my Christmas party, and then New Year's. Oh god, so much whiskey... so much whiskey.

Anyway, I brought chips and salsa this time, so I'll only have to leave the comfort of my computer chair occasionally to use the washroom. Hmm... there must be some way to prevent this, too...

As for the whole Green Cuisine thing, it's a no-go. Unfortunately, my girlfriend left her crappy vegan-infested (no offense to the easily offended) job as is now onto bigger and better things.

EDIT: Oh hey, I was also wondering if anyone still wanted to drag a noob (myself) through some tunnels. I now have a flashlight, so I think I'm well on my way toward seasoned-veteranhood. But my first someone needs to help me lose my virginity to a tunnel...



[last edit 1/11/2007 2:56 AM by ShadowCaster - edited 1 times]

A. Lien 


Location: Fantasy Island B.C.
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Abductees Anonymous all welcome

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1248 on 1/11/2007 2:57 AM >
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Nice work baily_ca. It looks like the old and new photos could almost be overlayed. (The 3rd archival one you posted) This would then show the placement of the old building. And the areas that had doors and windows, besides the obvious one... That brick and rock work is very random.

The first photo is now Bastion Square, shot from the other direction. I pretty much confirmed this by looking at a photo in the book, Victoria, A History in Photographs.

I think way back someone got under a space near the old HBC Warehouse. It didn't look like a basement though.

I tried to get into the basement of Chandlers, but was denied access. That's where there is the Chinese writing, as posted back a ways. Allegedly painted by a worker to ward of ghosts. Given the Native history here, there must be lots of bones and things buried under much of the old shoreline areas. I think they found a skull or something about 15 years ago when renovation Capital Iron.

The facade photo you posted could be a breakthrough, and if they didn't fill it all in, there is likely some very interesting spaces under there. Add to this the story I was told, of the tunnel up to Birks, (explored by the kids in their teens). Since it was a warehouse on the waterfront, a covered walkway or tunnel would make sense.

I agree with you about the local media. Thankfully there is one exception. Focus Magazine. They have had some excellent heritage oriented articles. That was how I found out, and photographed, the old barracks in Esquimalt before their destruction. A heritage crime. Also The News Group occasionally publishes interesting historical type articles.

Added: That last window, in the lower left sure looks damn close to the color photo posted by J.P. And further to the right, where there are now the giant planters, could well be those doors...



[last edit 1/11/2007 3:04 AM by A. Lien - edited 1 times]

My sister is Charlotte Light and Dark. Who am I?

Farewell and thank you... "I was doing something that I thought could have some impact someday. In many ways, it's really these photographs that kept me going creatively." Dennis Hopper
bailey_ca 


Location: Victoria BC
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1249 on 1/11/2007 6:17 AM >
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Thanks! Back when I lived in Old Town, I went cruising through BCARS on night for about 8 hours. I've got about 400 or so saved photos of various old buildings, streetscapes, alignments, etc. to go on. I'll see what else I can dig up.

Hard to believe Bastion Square was just a glorified parking lot at one time huh?

If you look at the archive photos I posted vs. the modern one of the retaining wall, you'll notice that the bricked up hole in the wall would've actually been at the "front" of the building, which is why I referred to it as a pass-through.

The storehouse fronted onto Wharf St. which, as far as I know, has always followed the same alignment. If this is the case, that would mean that the door on the back of the storehouse would've been a pass-through.

This would also confirm the whole idea of moving freight to/from the wharves via a tunnel. It makes sense, really. Though I've yet to find a picture of it, my guess is that there was probably a gangplank/ramp from the wharf up to that loading door, through the storehouse and under the old fort.

Since the fort was directly across the road from the storehouse, my guess is that the tunnel probably just dead-ends somewhere under Bastion Square. I'm sure the old fort had a store, so the old storehouse/tunnel system could probably just be considered the "back room" of the store.

Whether the tunnel was used for anything else is something up for debate. The storehouse wasn't demolished until 1937, and by that point, downtown was quite built up.

It would make sense that the tunnel could have been expanded to nearby buildings and perhaps used for dry coal delivery? Since the roads weren't paved and trucks a thing of the future, it would make sense to me to deliver coal directly to various buildings using the tunnel system. (Much easier than offloading it into a horse/wagon and lugging the stuff up muddy roads in the middle of the rainy season.)




KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 187 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1250 on 1/11/2007 5:41 PM >
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Posted by bailey_ca

Hard to believe Bastion Square was just a glorified parking lot at one time huh?



Indeed. But the parking lot was only part of that area's history.

Your observations regarding the HBC warehouse have opened up some new interest. Note that in one of the accompanying photographs (thanks for finding/posting these, btw) there are power lines running through Warf St.

Where are they now?

Back in the mid-late '50's, the City decided to bury them. This meant either tearing up the street to create a utility tunnel, or using existing spaces. What do you think happened?

Various (now retired) city workers from that period have told me personally that while working on this project, they discovered what they have described as tunnels. Brick or stone walled structures, very old, with plank floors and reinforced ceilings, all underground. Fisgard area has one, and so does the Broughton St. area. These things are still there, despite protests and denials from official sources.

There is an old story about a tunnel running from Store/Johnson St. area and connecting with Warf, and then running up Broughton. Check some of the buildings around that area, and you'll see a long, narrow passageway below street level and extending both left and right for some (unknown) length. I'm speaking of the various restaurants beside what would have been the HBC warehouse.

An old-timer told me recently of a gold mine shaft that ran from the shoreline up to what is now the Strathcona Hotel. This would be the old Customs House area, and a straight line through bedrock. Various posters to this thread have dismissed the idea as being either outright impossible, to too expensive, to too loud, dirty to keep from public view. Well...we'll see about that. Victoria, as we all know, was the first stop for those arriving for the Gold Rush...meaning that it was generally a weigh-station for miners and prospectors. These types know about blasting through rock and such.

Also, I have learned of a blasting process that doesn't require massive explosions to dislodge rock. It involves hairline fissures filled with water and blasting caps, and is all quite quiet and neat.

Beyond that, Victoria did, in fact, have an industry catering to the mining trade, and a dynamite factory was located just outside City limits. Explosions wouldn't have been too uncommon during those times.

Anyhoo, baily_ca, your interest and contribution to this ongoing fascination is greatly appreciated. Keep it up.

KK




"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Wiccan 


Location: Hamilton Ontario
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1251 on 1/12/2007 2:44 AM >
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Posted on Forum: UER Forum
*Just poking my nose into the longest thread I've ever seen on UER.
Okay,I'll go back to my life now*




bailey_ca 


Location: Victoria BC
Gender: Male
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1252 on 1/14/2007 8:27 AM >
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Posted by KublaKhan

...there are power lines running through Warf St.

Where are they now?

Back in the mid-late '50's, the City decided to bury them. This meant either tearing up the street to create a utility tunnel, or using existing spaces. What do you think happened?

Various (now retired) city workers from that period have told me personally that while working on this project, they discovered what they have described as tunnels. Brick or stone walled structures, very old, with plank floors and reinforced ceilings, all underground. Fisgard area has one, and so does the Broughton St. area. These things are still there, despite protests and denials from official sources.


This doesn't surprise me at all; if you're going to underground your utilities, and there's an existing underground system, you'd be crazy not to use it. As I've posted before, my father has been down in several old storeroom/tunnel/sidewalk prism areas while plotting out fibre lines for a telecom.

My guess would be that the "denials" of the officials are probably to keep casual explorers out of the system. Think about it... If the the city admitted that there was a vast underground network of tunnels in existence, every high school kid with a flash light would be down there.

It would be a nightmare for police, who are already a scarce sight on our streets at night, let alone the insurance woes. It makes sense for the city to deny the existence of tunnels.

Posted by KublaKhan
There is an old story about a tunnel running from Store/Johnson St. area and connecting with Warf, and then running up Broughton. Check some of the buildings around that area, and you'll see a long, narrow passageway below street level and extending both left and right for some (unknown) length. I'm speaking of the various restaurants beside what would have been the HBC warehouse.

Store/Johnson/Wharf/Cormorant/Pandora/etc. were all realigned. I could certainly see there being some tunnels between the buildings there (more on that later). One thing to keep in mind is that the current alignment of the streets is not what it was when Victoria was founded.

Even the Johnson St. Bridge alignment is relatively new. Just imagine what would've happened if the city council of 1964 had it's way, and Market Square was the site of a 250,000 sqft shopping mall, bordered by the offramps of the West Victoria Expressway!
Posted by KublaKhan
An old-timer told me recently of a gold mine shaft that ran from the shoreline up to what is now the Strathcona Hotel. This would be the old Customs House area, and a straight line through bedrock. Various posters to this thread have dismissed the idea as being either outright impossible, to too expensive, to too loud, dirty to keep from public view.

By gold mine shaft, I assume he meant a way of secretively transporting gold from the docks? My guess would be that the tunnel does not run up to the Strath, but rather, ends at the Currency Exchange.

The Currency Exchange is directly across from the old Imperial Oil building (now Milestone's/tourist info centre). This makes a lot more sense to me:

Back in the day, the Currency Exchange was Victoria's main post office. It would certainly make sense to tunnel from Custom's House to the Post Office! This would guarantee the city a closed, sheltered route from the docks to the post office.

The old post office may well be the "hub" of the coveted network of Victoria tunnels. Myself, I doubt these tunnels are as interesting as folklore has lead us to believe. My theory is that we're in search of a bunch of utilitarian tunnels:

Certainly some of the tunnels would've been used for moving goods from one area of the city to another. Many more would've been storage rooms and/or connections between basements. There may have been a few lengthy tunnels, but they're probably for moving things between government installations, eg, Custom House and the Post Office.

What would be really handy is a map/documents detailing land ownership around the time downtown was first built up. I think what we'd find is that the same person owned several buildings near each other, and it would make sense that the owner connect them via tunnels.

Posted by KublaKhan
Well...we'll see about that. Victoria, as we all know, was the first stop for those arriving for the Gold Rush...meaning that it was generally a weigh-station for miners and prospectors. These types know about blasting through rock and such.

Also, I have learned of a blasting process that doesn't require massive explosions to dislodge rock. It involves hairline fissures filled with water and blasting caps, and is all quite quiet and neat.

Beyond that, Victoria did, in fact, have an industry catering to the mining trade, and a dynamite factory was located just outside City limits. Explosions wouldn't have been too uncommon during those times.

I doubt that any sort of blasting would have batted eyes in an up-and-coming city like Victoria. (How times change, hehe.) The blasting then would probably be as commonplace as blasting out a parking lot for a condo is now: Annoying, but a sign of progress. If the tunnels were blasted out back then, it was probably public knowledge.

Posted by KublaKhan
Anyhoo, baily_ca, your interest and contribution to this ongoing fascination is greatly appreciated. Keep it up.

Glad to help. I'm more than willing to take a day off work to claw through BCARS or the city archives to find out more things related to this.




Canadian Trencher 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1253 on 1/15/2007 5:35 PM >
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Glad to help. I'm more than willing to take a day off work to claw through BCARS or the city archives to find out more things related to this.


You and me both my friend actually thats what friday is for im going to be looking up property ownage and map it out and any interested in my findings pm me and ill send along a copy ( as long as you have been active in the forms ( automatics = kubla alien Peterman bailey and the other regs ( sorry if i left ya out)))

SO should be fun ( and take up my wall)




The sad thing is the world will not end with a bang but with a whimper!!
danbar101 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1254 on 1/18/2007 3:05 AM >
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amateurs




danbar101 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1255 on 1/18/2007 3:58 AM >
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i have a solution to most of your problems

Infrared web camera

i got mine at the richmond night market it has RCA cables and an attachment for usb.


usb extension, or rca extension


simple every day wire coat hanger


tape!


laptop or portable dvd player with rca jacks


long drill bit


cordless drill



1. straighten the coat hanger
2. take apart the camera case
3. tape the camera to one end of the coat hanger
4. connect the extension wire
5. tape the extension wires the entire length of the coat hanger
6. plug into viewing device

all these doorways, passages, holes in walls bricked in simply take the cordless drill put a hole through the morter, slide in the coat hanger infrared viewing device. the coathanger is useful because you can bend it in ways that you can twist the camera to get different views of whats behind the wall/blocked passage/door/ under a floor or above a ceiling.

if its filled in behind the wall thats a shame. if there is infact something behind it well damn! wait till 3 am on stormy night put on an overcoat to conceal the sledge and get to work.

when i go out ue-ing my favorite and most handy tool is a rock hammer



its about 20 bucks, but makes fast work of chipping away a brick or morter to remove bricks and its a bit more quite than a sledge. it works very well on thoes windows with bars sunk in concrete, you know the kind to keep you out...maybe keep you in. just chip away the base in no time and pull out the bars instant access. than you can put the bars back in place and no ones the wiser unless they take a close look.

or wait untill my next trip to victoria and i will bring my scope





Mowgli-dog 


Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1256 on 1/18/2007 4:54 AM >
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Glad to help. I'm more than willing to take a day off work to claw through BCARS or the city archives to find out more things related to this.



So...what did you learn on your trip to the archives?




"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

Rest in peace, my pal Mowgli - the best dog there ever was.
true_infinity 


Location: Rockford, IL.
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Jerk of the Year

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1257 on 1/18/2007 4:07 PM >
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Posted by danbar101
i have a solution to most of your problems

Infrared web camera


Now...forgive me for being an amateur...but how exactly is all that shit supposed to help locate the tunnels?

I could understand if these guys were already in a confirmed tunnel, then faced with a walled off dead-end, started seeking outsourced solutions....but you seem to be suggesting a way to get around an obstacle that hasn't impeded their path yet.

I believe (maybe KK or J.P. can confirm) that the investigation into the separation of rumor from fact is still ongoing...no?

Do you know something they don't?
Have you been, and have you seen?
Will they be stopped in the midst of their journey?



~b






Leo1: You cant just wander around Gary going into old buildings! Theres plenty of crackheads that will bust you in the mouth for that camera, then run a train your ladyfriends.
Me: I like Gary, I think its nice, aside from the lack of eats on a Sunday afternoon.
Leo2: Yeah, its really nice...until we find three dead strangers in an...abandoned...thing.
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Total Likes: 187 likes


With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.

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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1258 on 1/18/2007 5:36 PM >
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Posted by true_infinity

Now...forgive me for being an amateur...but how exactly is all that shit supposed to help locate the tunnels?

I could understand if these guys were already in a confirmed tunnel, then faced with a walled off dead-end, started seeking outsourced solutions....but you seem to be suggesting a way to get around an obstacle that hasn't impeded their path yet.

I believe (maybe KK or J.P. can confirm) that the investigation into the separation of rumor from fact is still ongoing...no?

Do you know something they don't?
Have you been, and have you seen?
Will they be stopped in the midst of their journey?

~b



Agreed. We few amateurs...those who have been pursuing this story/rumour/legend/falsehood/hidden truth/etc. for the last three or four years (two on this forum)...have tried all manner of Secret Agent gimmickry in our efforts to gain access. Holes have been drilled, pictures taken, flesh pressed, bribes offered and we're still only on the cusp of something big.

Tanuki and I checked out a location recently, and came away freshly educated. The GCGs, led by J. Peterman, met and descended into a darkened space few have seen in decades.

The Secret Agent ploys, toys (games played by boys) looks cool, but the reality is that none of it will get you beyond wanking. Being seen with fancy-schmancy cameras that see in the dark will get you sealed off for good.

This sort of infiltration isn't about punching your way through to the Other Side. It's about careful and deliberate planning, gentle persuasion and, above all else, patience.






"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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danbar101 


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Re: Under the Garden City: Victoria B.C. secret tunnels.
< Reply # 1259 on 1/18/2007 9:07 PM >
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amateur was not ment to be taken in offence, it was a joke. victoria is your back yard. im way up in campbell river

i just hate to be stopped bt things like old bricked in doorways, or windows. like that of the one that used to have the hbc warehouse on top. i know the spot. last time i was in vic i spent a day trying to find another doorway, hole, drain something to get down there or some kind of proof that it was filled in. im not talking destruction, just pokeing a hole to see if infact it is filled in. or perhaps something behind it. ive exausted all there is to be explored on the north island. a place near the comox valley called headquarters, at a time it used to be the biggest community north of nanimo. houses, hydro electricity, sawmill, church, grave yard, train station, hotel and general store. when ww1 hit the men of the down left to go fight. no one was left to work the saw mill and it got shut down without cutting a single log. the town became abandon, and than tourched. the only thing remaining is the cement structure of the saw mill. down in the archives in the museum of cumberland, i found old pictures of the saw mill, and saw it was a three story building. now only two are visible because the river beside it floods every year, sedement has hidden the first floor. the gadget i talked about was how i got a glimps into this bottom floor, instead of trying to dig out an entire saw mill. i just drilled into the floor, stuck in the camera, and i could see that there was infact a basement with stuff inside and see where the door was that once led from outside of the building into the basement. now dig it out. haha when the snow melts.

one tunnel i went into when last i was in victoria had a blocked off passage,. it was just filled in with bricks. i still want to know whats behind it.

as much as you guys hate gadgets

another gadget i bring with me to vic is a portable gas detector to many gasses are invisible and have no smell with all the cars driving above carbon monoxide can kill you in minutes of being in a tunnel, who knows what else is down there, especialy in drains.

when it comes to victoria tunnels, whenever im down, im a fan of getting the homeless to show me things than take them to subway or quiznos. they oftain know about places and things the general public would not.

i dident know about this site untill just a little while ago, i never knew there was a group dedicated to finding these things. i thought me and my friends were the only ones.




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