Hello everyone:

I was recently scouting a construction site in my area. I have never seen this much security for a residential construction site. There were cameras covering the entire perimeter. In addition, there were signs all over the perimeter about "live 24/7 camera monitoring" by a company called Stealth Monitoring:

https://stealthmonitoring.com/

This company appears to be quite serious about catching people. They seem to be proud of the fact that they are putting security guards out of work lol They apparently have the ability to do some crazy stuff with their cameras and systems:

- NVR-based IP camera monitoring
- Proactive monitoring
- Dedicated teams of video analysts
- The people monitoring the cameras consist of ex-police and ex-military
- They can contact police directly (ie they can bypass the 911 operators)
- License plate recognition
- Long-range surveillance
- Crane climbing detection
- "Talk-down" audio deterrents (ie can tap into speakers around the perimeter remotely)

Now for my questions:

1) If this kind of technology becomes (or already is) commonplace, how do you think it will affect our hobby in the long-term? Will a point be reached where it becomes impossible to do any exploring?

2) What experiences do you have with this technology during explorations? Is this something to be really concerned about?

Smartcam networks are already common place in the private sector.
The Feds have been using from about 2000 on.
I can verify that the FBI does make unannounced house calls if you get tagged by one theirs

1994 - the had pics of Tim McVeigh on the news on the day of the bombing.

2013 - they had video of the Tsarnaev brothers on the day of the bombing.

This capability is not limited to the US.

License plate scanners are super easy to beat. Don't park near the place that you are trying to enter.

As far as cameras go. Be proactive in where you see what looks like or could be one and avoid it. Otherwise just make sure you wear clothes with no special patterns, logos, or wording on it. Keep on glasses, a hat and have your face obscured. It may not totally beat facial renegotiation tech but don't make their jobs easier for them.

Who cares if they can talk to you. Its not like they are there they can only call the cops which will still take some time to respond. Also if there is no proof that its you and you were not caught in the act you can not be charged. You can always plead the fifth amendment if you are stopped after leaving the site. Either you are being detained or you are free to go, and you don't "need" to discuss your day or night with the cops in most states.

I would guess Blackhawk got caught because they got a good shot of his face or a license plate or similar.

Also just stay off equipment. If they can alarm cranes I would venture to say any of it could be alarmed.

Just my two cents on the situation. If it was something I really wanted to see I would still go for it. You either have to be lucky or stupid in this hobby.

I've encountered audio deterrents in varying forms. It's pretty easy to stick a couple motion sensors on a fence and make them buzz when you climb over. I'm not sure if any of them were being controlled remotely in the moment.

The closest thing I've seen to what you describe was when I hopped a fence, then an unintelligible radio voice started playing through a speaker (not sure if live or pre-recorded message), then proceeded to play a loud buzz.

Posted by Money License plate scanners are super easy to beat. Don't park near the place that you are trying to enter. As far as cameras go. Be proactive in where you see what looks like or could be one and avoid it. Otherwise just make sure you wear clothes with no special patterns, logos, or wording on it. Keep on glasses, a hat and have your face obscured. It may not totally beat facial renegotiation tech but don't make their jobs easier for them. Who cares if they can talk to you. Its not like they are there they can only call the cops which will still take some time to respond. Also if there is no proof that its you and you were not caught in the act you can not be charged. You can always plead the fifth amendment if you are stopped after leaving the site. Either you are being detained or you are free to go, and you don't "need" to discuss your day or night with the cops in most states. I would guess Blackhawk got caught because they got a good shot of his face or a license plate or similar. Also just stay off equipment. If they can alarm cranes I would venture to say any of it could be alarmed. Just my two cents on the situation. If it was something I really wanted to see I would still go for it. You either have to be lucky or stupid in this hobby.

You only see the cams if they want you to...
Smartcams can use telephoto lens and be a thousand yards out.
That broken street light just might be a cam.
The system LEOs use have facial recognition capabilities... remember that picture DL you're carrying?
They glean not just your tag number but the color, make and car model. They can recognize and reacquire you if you come back even days or weeks later.
If you breach a zone or programmed trigger anything from a notation to a real time alert can be triggered complete with the images of all the cams that tracked you.
Advance systems can use FLIR cams to glean and ID your face in complete darkness. These will slowly filter down to use in the commercial sector.

These can be very formidable systems.
Smartcam networks are just that, many are comprised of a dozen or more cams possibly with overlapping fields of view. It's the software that makes them software such a menace. They don't need to search through hours or days of recordings; the software shows any incidents that triggered alerts and any time in the saved past that the current actor(s) were observed by the system.
Some have terabytes of memory or more.

Please everyone dont panic, don't act surprised, "smart cams" have been around a long time longer than most of our "leet urbexorz" on UER

...software has improved, image quality has improved, however;

...this one was most likely dismantled in the 70s thanks to our U.S. government "waste your tax dollars" program

I know its not a camera fool its a camera mount read the admonishment on the sticker haha

...also look at that connector, not your typical BNC connector when that was connected it fed more than live video, tilt and pan

Unless you stays at home all the time chances are good your countenance is already in The Database. Even before facial recognition they used federal agents police detectives and a grainy CRT monitor to facially recognize your mug.

Posted by 2Xplorations Please everyone dont panic, don't act surprised, "smart cams" have been around a long time longer than most of our "leet urbexorz" on UER ...software has improved, image quality has improved, however; ...this one was most likely dismantled in the 70s thanks to our U.S. government "waste your tax dollars" program I know its not a camera fool its a camera mount read the admonishment on the sticker haha ...also look at that connector, not your typical BNC connector when that was connected it fed more than live video, tilt and pan Unless you stays at home all the time chances are good your countenance is already in The Database. Even before facial recognition they used federal agents police detectives and a grainy CRT monitor to facially recognize your mug. click to view

Smartcam networks use only fix position cam mounts.
These networks are a relative recent event.
They depend on not just the AI software but the powerful computers that started becoming affordable in the 2000's.
As best I know none were in existence in the 70's or 80's.

Posted by blackhawk Smartcam networks use only fix position cam mounts. These networks are a relative recent event. They depend on not just the AI software but the powerful computers that started becoming affordable in the 2000's. As best I know none were in existence in the 70's or 80's.

That's a matter of terminology. I call any camera that can track you a smart cam

AI pfft who needs it? Not the Air Force in 1976. Camera guy (if he is awake) dispatches an armed response team on your location. And you go to the brig. (or the morgue) Now that's smart! No stinking computer required.

Posted by 2Xplorations That's a matter of terminology. I call any camera that can track you a smart cam AI pfft who needs it? Not the Air Force in 1976. Camera guy (if he is awake) dispatches an armed response team on your location. And you go to the brig. (or the morgue) Now that's smart! No stinking computer required.

I'm not referring to motion activated cams.
A smartcam is a cam image driven by AI software that can recognizes people, colors etc, discrete actions by the players as well as zoned area breaches depending on it's programming.
Although there are stand alone smartcams, it more common to network many cams together to give the system greater range and redundancy.
For instance it could be programmed to give a real time alert for a black man riding a purple bicycle; the system would ignore everyone else.*

They don't always work perfectly but their AI performance keeps getting better each generation.

Pupil distance is one of the key parameters for facial recognition; hats and shades offer some protection... if it doesn't glean your car tag.



*In 2006 or so the Philly cops installed two stand alone smartcams in city parks that had persistent sexual assaults going on. I'm paraphrasing how the police described some of it's capabilities to the news media.
They went for $6G a piece back then if I remember correctly.

Posted by blackhawk I'm not referring to motion activated cams. A smartcam is a cam image driven by AI software that can recognizes people, colors etc, discrete actions by the players as well as zoned area breaches depending on it's programming. Although there are stand alone smartcams, it more common to network many cams together to give the system greater range and redundancy. For instance it could be programmed to give a real time alert for a black man riding a purple bicycle; the system would ignore everyone else.* They don't always work perfectly but their AI performance keeps getting better each generation. Pupil distance is one of the key parameters for facial recognition; hats and shades offer some protection... if it doesn't glean your car tag. *In 2006 or so the Philly cops installed two stand alone smartcams in city parks that had persistent sexual assaults going on. I'm paraphrasing how the police described some of it's capabilities to the news media. They went for $6G a piece back then if I remember correctly.

fyi I know all that Im just contrasting 1970 technology but whatever

Posted by 2Xplorations fyi I know all that Im just contrasting 1970 technology but whatever

I would imagine you've used this technology... both.

Posted by Money License plate scanners are super easy to beat. Don't park near the place that you are trying to enter. As far as cameras go. Be proactive in where you see what looks like or could be one and avoid it. Otherwise just make sure you wear clothes with no special patterns, logos, or wording on it. Keep on glasses, a hat and have your face obscured. It may not totally beat facial renegotiation tech but don't make their jobs easier for them. Who cares if they can talk to you. Its not like they are there they can only call the cops which will still take some time to respond. Also if there is no proof that its you and you were not caught in the act you can not be charged. You can always plead the fifth amendment if you are stopped after leaving the site. Either you are being detained or you are free to go, and you don't "need" to discuss your day or night with the cops in most states. I would guess Blackhawk got caught because they got a good shot of his face or a license plate or similar. Also just stay off equipment. If they can alarm cranes I would venture to say any of it could be alarmed. Just my two cents on the situation. If it was something I really wanted to see I would still go for it. You either have to be lucky or stupid in this hobby.

Point taken on dressing in non-distinct clothing.

Regarding the audio-deterrent, sure the camera operators are not actually there. But I imagine that the speakers for those are loud and can attract attention. The police might not be there, but other civilians could be walking around and spot me. If enough people see me leaving, that makes it easier for the cops.

God, sometimes I hate technology lol

Posted by Fleeting I've encountered audio deterrents in varying forms. It's pretty easy to stick a couple motion sensors on a fence and make them buzz when you climb over. I'm not sure if any of them were being controlled remotely in the moment. The closest thing I've seen to what you describe was when I hopped a fence, then an unintelligible radio voice started playing through a speaker (not sure if live or pre-recorded message), then proceeded to play a loud buzz.

Do you stick around long enough to see how long the police response time was?

Posted by blackhawk You only see the cams if they want you to... Smartcams can use telephoto lens and be a thousand yards out. That broken street light just might be a cam. The system LEOs use have facial recognition capabilities... remember that picture DL you're carrying? They glean not just your tag number but the color, make and car model. They can recognize and reacquire you if you come back even days or weeks later. If you breach a zone or programmed trigger anything from a notation to a real time alert can be triggered complete with the images of all the cams that tracked you. Advance systems can use FLIR cams to glean and ID your face in complete darkness. These will slowly filter down to use in the commercial sector. These can be very formidable systems. Smartcam networks are just that, many are comprised of a dozen or more cams possibly with overlapping fields of view. It's the software that makes them software such a menace. They don't need to search through hours or days of recordings; the software shows any incidents that triggered alerts and any time in the saved past that the current actor(s) were observed by the system. Some have terabytes of memory or more.

So in short:

- Don't bring a car...case closed
- If I decide to explore a site with these cameras, I should only do it once and never come back
- Try to hide my face as much as possible

So I guess there is a point where I have to decide if the reward is worth the effort of trying to get around all of this.

The construction site is downtown, but it's just another condo/retirement residence. When I say downtown, I am talking about a small city. I don't live in a place like Toronto or Vancouver. I don't see anything special about this site to warrant such extreme security measures.

Posted by crockett85 So in short: - Don't bring a car...case closed - If I decide to explore a site with these cameras, I should only do it once and never come back - Try to hide my face as much as possible So I guess there is a point where I have to decide if the reward is worth the effort of trying to get around all of this. The construction site is downtown, but it's just another condo/retirement residence. When I say downtown, I am talking about a small city. I don't live in a place like Toronto or Vancouver. I don't see anything special about this site to warrant such extreme security measures.

You can get tagged the first time.
Trigger a real time alert you have as long as it takes them to respond.

The FBI in particular likes to do surveillance and give you enough rope to hang yourself.
They may watch you for weeks even longer and do nothing as they gather information.

You can't "spot" a smartcam network. You may see some of it's cams but they're just fixed position cams*.
It's the computer and it's AI software that makes them formidable.
Government, military, airport and 911 hot spots (including private sector such as oil, chemical, power plants etc) carry the greatest risk of encountering these systems.

That said these aren't everywhere, regardless practice damage control by not doing anything worse than trespassing.
Don't carry tools or weapons.
Break nothing and don't force entry.
Run from guards but never cops.
There are plenty of places that are abandoned and can be explored with little or no risk of arrest.
Small steps at first...

Remember falls and structural collapse are the biggest hazards you face especially in low light.



*Telephoto lense cams may indicate the presence of smartcam network. No guaranteed though.

Nowadays with all this zero-day plug-n-play security gear that's so easy even a security guard can use it, they're going to leave some tracks.

A little know-how can go a long way.

I have dealt with stealth monitoring a lot in Seattle. They have a direct line to police dispatch and the cops come pretty fucking quick. Find a blind spot and wear your running shoes. Been a few cranes around here I had to bust out the short rope and handle ascenders to get past the cameras at ground level. And you better believe that software will flag you if you walk through the frame too many times in a short time, or loiter,or even if you touch the fence.

Posted by blackhawk You can get tagged the first time. Trigger a real time alert you have as long as it takes them to respond. The FBI in particular likes to do surveillance and give you enough rope to hang yourself. They may watch you for weeks even longer and do nothing as they gather information. You can't "spot" a smartcam network. You may see some of it's cams but they're just fixed position cams*. It's the computer and it's AI software that makes them formidable. Government, military, airport and 911 hot spots (including private sector such as oil, chemical, power plants etc) carry the greatest risk of encountering these systems. That said these aren't everywhere, regardless practice damage control by not doing anything worse than trespassing. Don't carry tools or weapons. Break nothing and don't force entry. Run from guards but never cops. There are plenty of places that are abandoned and can be explored with little or no risk of arrest. Small steps at first... Remember falls and structural collapse are the biggest hazards you face especially in low light. *Telephoto lense cams may indicate the presence of smartcam network. No guaranteed though.

When you say that you can be tagged the first time, would they know exactly who you are and where you live from just a few photos/videos?

You said that you can't spot a smartcam network. So the system could be setup in such a way that they make you think that you have bypassed the cameras to give you a false sense of success? Then they get you when your deep within the site and your guard is down.

You have convinced me to pass on this site. But I am curious about this smartcam technology and what its capable of. Thanks for explaining it!

Posted by crockett85 When you say that you can be tagged the first time, would they know exactly who you are and where you live from just a few photos/videos? You said that you can't spot a smartcam network. So the system could be setup in such a way that they make you think that you have bypassed the cameras to give you a false sense of success? Then they get you when your deep within the site and your guard is down. You have convinced me to pass on this site. But I am curious about this smartcam technology and what its capable of. Thanks for explaining it!

Federal systems can have full access to all available databases with images, so yeah it could tag you the first time with facial recognition.
The immediate danger is the same as triggering a silent alarm; no warning and they are coming.

To effectively take out a smartcam network you need to take out the controlling computer which is probably hard or impossible.
The cams are like suckers on an octopus, losing a couple doesn't stop it from functioning.
Chances are on a well set up system you'll never see the cams at all.
Been there, done that.

Again these aren't everywhere and other methods can be used as well such as drones for large areas like military bases. They may or may not be in use.
There are a few here who have trespassed on active military bases with no repercussions and some who ended up in prison.
That said federal, civil or private sectors have better than ever security systems available to them if they choose to use them.
&
Don't dime yourself out. Social media is a big information source for LEOs.
Technology can be your worst enemy...