Anyone have any experience with LORAN-C sites? The US sites at least were shut down in 2010 so they've been non-operational for going on 9 years and should be -relatively- safe as far as operational hazards (RF, etc). That is unless some of the towers have been repurposed. I'm not really a climber, so I'm not so much interested in the tower other than taking photos. I'm a bit of a communications geek so exploring the buildings / equipment would be cool if I could find a POE.

I'm a LITTLE sketched out about it though because: 1) No plausible deniability if caught. The site is clearly marked about every 50ft along the fenceline and I can't really say I "stumbled" across it because the surrounding area is even more tightly controlled than the Loran site (the surrounding area is natural gas plants and power generating stations which are active). 2) The surveillance camera at the gate has been knocked off it's post, but that doesn't mean cameras within aren't still monitored as it's still USCG property. 3) Even though the gate is locked and there's no daily operations any more I suspect there's still -some- security presence as there's tire tracks in the sand along the perimeter road inside the fenceline.

It's a 40 min trip to the site for me, but I think I'm going to put this into my "long term" list to make trips out and gain more info about before really making a decision on whether to try it.



For those that don't see them often, LORAN towers are an example of a system where the tower itself is insulated from ground and the whole structure is used as the transmitting element. Oddly enough, this tower isn't listed in the ASR (Antenna Structure Registration) database, but the obstruction is listed on aeronautical charts as 706ft in height (700' tower plus it's 6 foot insulator / mount at the ground).

Find a hole in the fence around back or another way to walk in, ditch the convenient automobile and hike. I don't care if you have to park 5 miles away it can be done. Believe me Ive done that. Nobody will see you at dusk walking through that bush country.


edit: look for signs of recent and ongoing activity by maintenance types or active security e.g. tire tracks, fresh Starbucks cups, multiple padlocks on the gate, cameras etc...


also do a property tax data base search to see who current owner is if not the U.S.C.G. or government alphabet agency


http://www.loran-h...20April%202015.pdf

Posted by 2XplorationsI don't care if you have to park 5 miles away it can be done. Believe me Ive done that. Nobody will see you at dusk walking through that bush country.

No one would likely see my vehicle parked in the scrub brush along the road either. The location is literally the only thing on the ~4mi long road. There's really no use for the road other than accessing the LORAN station.

Posted by 2Xplorationslook for signs of recent and ongoing activity by maintenance types or active security e.g. tire tracks, fresh Starbucks cups, multiple padlocks on the gate, cameras etc...

That's the only thing that makes me wonder about recent activity / security, because there are multiple padlocks on the gate and fresh tire tracks inside the gated area. It's possible that they're continuing to dismantle / haul away equipment from the buildings.

Posted by 2Xplorations also do a property tax data base search to see who current owner is if not the U.S.C.G. or government alphabet agency

That's something I regularly do and had already done for this site. The property is owned by the BLM and has been since before the site was commissioned. The BLM owned the land and leased it to the Coasties. The environmental impact study that was done before closing all of the LORAN sites confirms this and states that the site would be "returned to the property owner", but doesn't give a timeline for that occurring.

I suppose I could just get crafty and take one of my cheap trail cameras out there and stash it for a couple weeks with it facing the access gate. Then I'd know for sure who's coming and going.

They do use the large surveillance drones in some areas of NM.
Don't get too crafty... not much point in going past the fence line if you aren't going to climb it and it's locked up.
If it's not stripped out inside, getting inside the building might get you into a jam.

<youwrote>I'm a LITTLE sketched out about it though because: 1) No plausible deniability if caught.<end/>

If it is tax payers property just drive right up to it and if caught say your a communications buff.

Once drove to a radio-telescope site in nowheresville northeastern massachusetts with 3 antennas on my car. Scanner/CB/FM broadcast.

Was left alone. Some smiles/waves from employees...

Are we sure these are deactivated -and- decommissioned?
If so what is their status?
Wiki is not a reliable source...
Touching a live antenna mast would not end well.
And it's a secondary(?) navigation system which means the FBI be all over you like a cheap suit even if it's in standby mode.

Im faced with a similar site leased by the USN, yeah in TX I drove by every week hoping to see the gate opened, breaching the fence was not an option. One day as I drove by a bunch of white unmarked pick-up trucks and about a dozen bubbas were hauling the equipment out, gate locked behind them.

Now sitting empty behind a 10ft fence topped with razor wire and Im too old and clumsy to try to climb that now and I aint planning to dig under it.


If it went back to BLM only people going in and out are gonna be civilian contractors cleaning up and dismantling stuff our government people are too lazy or unskilled to do.

Posted by blackhawk Are we sure these are deactivated -and- decommissioned? If so what is their status? Wiki is not a reliable source... Touching a live antenna mast would not end well. And it's a secondary(?) navigation system which means the FBI be all over you like a cheap suit even if it's in standby mode.

All US and Canadian based LORAN transmitting stations were taken offline in 2010 in a ceremony held nation-wide. Then in March of 2011 the last LORAN Support Unit was disbanded.

TTY Transmission's Follow

R 101221Z SEP 10
FM COMDT COGARD WASHINGTON DC//CG-00//
TO ALCOAST
BT
UNCLAS //N16560//
ALCOAST 448/10
COMDTNOTE 16560
SUBJ: LONG RANGE NAVIGATION (LORAN-C) TERMINATION
1. ON 08 FEBRUARY 2010, LORAN-C SIGNAL TRANSMISSIONS WERE TERMINATED
AT 19 OF THE 24 TRANSMITTING STATIONS, ENDING U.S. DOMESTIC LORAN-C
OPERATIONS. THE FIVE REMAINING STATIONS CONTINUED ON AIR TO ALLOW THE
USCG TO HONOR INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS WITH CANADA AND THE RUSSIAN
FEDERATION. LORAN STATION ATTU HAS NOW SECURED ITS TRANSMISSION (1
AUGUST 2010), AND LORAN STATIONS CARIBOU, SHOAL COVE, GEORGE AND
NANTUCKET SECURED THEIR TRANSMISSIONS ON 03 AUGUST 2010, CLOSING OUT
OUR AGREEMENTS AND ENDING THE LORAN-C RADIO NAVIGATION MISSION IN
NORTH AMERICA.
 
...
 
6. ADMIRAL BOB PAPP, COMMANDANT, SENDS.
7. INTERNET RELEASE AUTHORIZED.
BT

DTG: 221645Z MAR 11
Originator: COGARD LSU WILDWOOD NJ
Subject: DISESTABLISH LORAN SUPPORT UNIT
UNCLAS //N16560//
SUBJ: DISESTABLISH LORAN SUPPORT UNIT
A. COMDT COGARD WASHINGTON DC R 191237Z MAY 10
B. DISESTABLISH LORAN UNIT CHECKLIST V2
C. SILC OFCO ADDENDUM FOR LORAN-C CLOSURE ACTIVITIES
1. PER REF A, OFCO 035-10, LORAN SUPPORT UNIT COMPLETED REF B AND C
ON 21 MAR 2011.
2. WITH THIS DISESTABLISHMENT, THERE ARE NO MORE LORAN UNITS IN THE
UNITED STATES COAST GUARD. FOR OVER 67 YEARS, LORANIMALS STOOD THE
WATCH. NOW, THE WATCH HAS BEEN SECURED. THEY HAVE MUCH TO BE PROUD
OF.
3. CDR GARY M. THOMAS, USCG, FINAL LORAN SUPPORT UNIT COMMANDING
OFFICER, SENDS.

It's not in "standby", it literally doesn't exist anymore as a NAV AID as far as the US is concerned. The only remaining systems in the world that remain operational are a few in the EU where they've integrated them with Galileo & GPS. They're using them with special receivers capable of receiving all three systems to maintain navigation of certain military equipment if one of the NAV AIDS were to be jammed. The US government "saw no utility" in maintaining LORAN as a backup system.

...SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO CERTIFY
THAT THE LORAN-C SYSTEM INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT NEEDED AS A BACKUP
TO THE GPS SYSTEM OR TO MEET ANY OTHER FEDERAL NAVIGATION
REQUIREMENT. WHEN THOSE CERTIFICATIONS ARE MADE, THE U.S. COAST
GUARD SHALL, COMMENCING JANUARY 4, 2010, TERMINATE THE
TRANSMISSION OF THE LORAN-C SIGNAL AND COMMENCE A PHASED
DECOMMISSIONING OF THE LORAN-C SYSTEM INFRASTRUCTURE

The announcement to the general public that the LORAN system would be decommissioned was published in the Federal Register, Vol 74 No 4, Jan 7 2010. Also, some of the former LORAN-C sites which were owned by the USCG have already made their way into the last FUDS inventory.

So, I'm about 99.5% sure that the site is no longer transmitting. That would get bumped to 100% the moment I got near the building and confirmed the cooling equipment was powered down. A 1000+ KW Transmitter operating down in the 100kHz area of the RF spectrum doesn't operate without some SERIOUS cooling.

At the very least, it's a site to keep on the back burner for later. Perhaps waiting until it's listed as FUDS / Excess.

eLoran... maybe same antenna, new system...
https://arstechnic...kup-because-cyber/

It's not a good idea to post here though especially on a public thread if you intend on going there again.
At least one other of these stateside sites is being maintained as if operational as another FM told me today.
A major solar storm could obliterated even harden GPS satellites. GPS is far from being impervious from both natural events and acts of war.
Replacing satellites could take years.

LORAN still being operational is BS. The claim that "one LORSTA is kept operational" is silly, because LORAN requires multiple master/slave stations to work! Argh... LORSTA Diamond Beach wasn't kept in-service, it just wasn't completely demolished. It was a eLORAN test site operated & paid for by some corporations hoping to eventually get the contract to build an eLORAN network.

https://www.presso...-1343edc2e90b.html

Here's the semi-reality, but remember, it'll take years before anything like this might be operational -- new environmental impact studies, new 'Not In My Back Yard!" protests, etc. *and* the consumer equipment needs to be created, bought & deployed:
https://arstechnic...kup-because-cyber/



No one will/should tell you "Yeah, go-ahead & trespass!"

BUT...

Look at the padlocks on the gate. All should have some sort of labeling as to the padlock owner, which gives you clues as to who currently has access to the property -- USCG, BLM, etc.

The antenna & guy wires still being extant indicates the site is not truly abandoned & somewhat forgotten about *yet* as the tall antenna & guy wires are a liability. The tower should have lights on it at night, per FAA rules, which means there should be electricity running to the site, big fines if the tower lights fail, etc. so it's surprising the tower isn't downed yet, as it is an ongoing cost & concern.

Get some walkie-talkies and a friend. Have the friend sit in your car about 2 miles up the access road after dropping you (ideally with a mountain bike) off by the gate & ensure you've got decent comms. Slowly walk/ride your bike to the site, looking for any signs of life. If BLM or anyone else turn onto the access road, your friend in the car can alert you & you can take appropriate action like hide in-place or try to get off the property, or at-least away from any US PROPERTY - NO TRESPASSING signs, & if it turns out to be BLM that sees/stops you away from any signage, tell them you're looking for fossils, a reported geocache, aircraft crash site from the 1950s, etc. If you're cool with them, they'll probably just issue you a verbal warning, if that. The reality with BLM is that they have very few LE Rangers, and those Rangers are assigned a very big area to patrol. Out here in the Las Vegas area on a Memorial Day weekend, the BLM LE Rangers on-duty are likely to be patrolling & responding to incidents at the popular recreation areas -- where the people are -- and not an old LORSTA several miles down a dirt road in a rather desolate area. Another tact that has worked for me if discovered on the site or asking permission to visit a site is to say I have an elderly relative who was once assigned there, and asked me to stop by and take photos -- it's a good psychological ploy.

If the gate is open & it seems like some sort of activity is taking place on the property, I would probably drive on in, find a supervisor & explain my interest & desire to document the site before it is gone. I suspect the worst that'd happen is they would tell you to leave. But in my case, it helps that I'm an older dude. If you're a teenager or in your 20s, their first-thought is probably going to be that you're looking for a fresh canvas to tag, or looking for a remote place to turn into a dope den/keg party spot.


If you have access to the UER DB, look at my Searchlight, Nevada LORSTA posting. At least for this site, when it was deactivated, it was locked-up, and then it took USCG a couple years before the antennas were downed, valuable electronic gear was removed, etc. The day I did explore & document the site, another vehicle did drive down the long, dirt access roads out in the middle of nowhere! I was parked on-site, so I made contact with them. Turns out they were also there to see what was left of the site!

If you're really nervous about the nearby plant & someone there spotting you as you explore the former LORSTA:

Don't visit the LORSTA -- discretion is the better part of valor.

Contact your local print media & see if they'd be interested in having you do an article about the site -- it's history, current condition, and future plans. They'll probably say to do it, then show them what you've got. Then contact BLM or USCG & tell them you're a reporter wanting to visit the site for a local news story. Getting in-touch with the right person may be difficult, and then getting permission may be tough too -- they probably don't want the public to know that such an attractive nuisance is sitting out there, semi-abandoned, cuz it means scrappers, taggers, curious public, etc. are going to show up. So you run the risk of them giving you a hard No. But on the other hand, USCG & BLM don't want to annoy the media. If they say No! but don't give you any decent reasons, send a letter to the USCG DIstrict Historian and the Senators or House Representative that covers the LORSTA (& hopefully your) area and ask them to help get you permission. Play it-up by staying there are many veterans of the site who would love to know what it looks like now, and deserve to have that happen, especially since you'd do it for free, etc. In fact, you should contact veterans of that LORSTA

or...

At a time when the plant gate shouldn't be too busy with coming & going vehicles, drive up to the gate, tell the security person that you're interested in the adjacent old LORSTA. You could embellish the story with the "My grandpa was assigned there a long time ago, and asked me to see what's going on there now" or "I'm doing a research paper on old LORAN stations..." & it also always helps to be very respectful, calling the guard "Officer ____," etc. Hopefully the security guy is a bored, older person that'll take the time to talk with you. You may be able to learn more about the status of the property & how often someone is there, etc. but the main thing you're kinda feeling-out is whether the security dude cares if you go poke around the old LORAN Station or not. Depending on the type of factory, that guard shack at the front gate may also be the security control center for the plant (meaning they monitor CCTV & other physical security sensors) & the guard may say "OK yeah, I'm not gonna do anything if you go there" or he may say "We have an agreement with USCG/BLM to report any trespassers on that land, sorry!" but either way, you'll get a feel for their concern about the place, and perhaps some hard intel that will help you.

I don't like taking risk for risk's sake (I'm an old dog now...), but I take manageable risk in-order to document a site that sooner or later, may otherwise be lost to history. USCG Historians will cover the official site decommissioning ceremony, but they don't make any effort to document the sites, before or after closure, so unless the site gets a HAER, it's up to people like us to explore, document, and share the info.


This web site can help you get in-touch with alumni of that LORSTA: http://www.loran-history.info/ they can tell you about anything of particular significance/interest to look for on the property, and then if you go get "aboard" the old site, they'll help you with photo captions, etc.


/-/ooligan