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UER Forum > US: Great Lakes > Urbex is legal in Kansas city!? (Viewed 2054 times)
natesidwesturbex 

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Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< on 9/18/2017 1:15 AM >
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SB 742 - This act allows a person who is not the owner of real property in Kansas City or who is a creditor holding a lien interest on the property, and who suspects that the real property may be abandoned, to enter the premises to visually inspect the property to determine whether it is abandoned.

If the person makes a good faith determination based on the inspection that the property is abandoned, the person may secure the property, remove trash or debris from the grounds, landscape, maintain, or mow the grounds, and remove or paint over graffiti. This act defines what it means for a property to be "abandoned".

This act provides that the person is immune from claims of civil and criminal trespass and all other civil liability, unless the act or omission constitutes gross negligence or willful, wanton, or intentional misconduct.

This act specifies that, in the case of real property that is subject to a mortgage or deed of trust, the creditor holding the debt secured by the mortgage or deed of trust may not enter the premises of the real property if entry is barred by an automatic stay issued by a bankruptcy court.

This act is nearly identical to SB 228 (2015). -mindwaave (Underground ozarks)



[last edit 9/18/2017 1:19 AM by natesidwesturbex - edited 2 times]

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Aran 


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Huh. I guess covid made me a trendsetter.

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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 1 on 9/18/2017 3:47 AM >
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True, but that only protects against trespassing, and even then only on a property that you believe is abandoned. This does not appear to protect against Breaking and Entering (which the minimum amount of force is usually opening a door), Burglary, or Disturbing the Peace (if a cop is looking for a reason).

Furthermore, this only appears to cover activities outside the building. Nothing is mentioned about how this holds up indoors. Lastly, it does not say whether a "no trespassing" sign overrides the belief that the building is abandoned.

All I'm saying is that while this is a pretty nice law, it also has lots of intricacies that could potentially screw you over if you take this as carte blanche to throw caution to the wind.



[last edit 9/18/2017 3:47 AM by Aran - edited 1 times]

"Sorry, I didn't know I'm not supposed to be here," he said, knowing full well he wasn't supposed to be there.

CadeConnelly 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 2 on 9/18/2017 4:36 PM >
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Also, this was only passed in Missouri. If you tried to use it on the Kansas side you'd be up the creek without a paddle.




natesidwesturbex 

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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 3 on 9/18/2017 10:09 PM >
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Posted by CadeConnelly
Also, this was only passed in Missouri. If you tried to use it on the Kansas side you'd be up the creek without a paddle.


true... But i tend to adventure on the Missouri side




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propaganda 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 4 on 9/20/2017 1:40 PM >
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Good luck explaining that to a cop.




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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 5 on 9/20/2017 7:14 PM >
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You have to be a lien holder.




Quarantine 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 6 on 9/20/2017 9:11 PM >
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I'd be curious to see the full text of this in context with the rest of the related state statutes, but my reading of it is that this is probably related to Adverse Possession doctrine. This doctrine (coded in law in many/most US states) is essentially heavily-stipulated squatters rights, allowing for someone other than the lawful owner to gain legal possession of a property that is "Abandoned" (generally defined as being unoccupied and having a delinquent tax bill) if 1. The non-owner occupies the property for a period of time (usually 3-5 years) 2. The lawful owner makes no attempt to remove the occupier during that period of time 3. The occupier makes efforts to secure & maintain the property during that time.

My guess is that this statute is related to #3; in a city with many abandoned properties it can behoove to the city government to allow, if not encourage, reoccupation & rehabilitation of derelict properties that have absent, uncooperative, or deceased legal owners who are failing to pay taxes & allowing the properties to be in a state of disrepair that would require costly demolitions by the municipal government if a 3rd party did not step in. Local governments love private property rights, but they also love not ending up with a bunch of shitty abandoned houses on their hands that they have to maintain or demolish.

I don't believe this would cover urban exploring in general, although with a good enough lawyer one could perhaps pass a claim that they were simply inspecting the property. Something tells me that entering a building to simply hang out and take recreational photos would be considered by the court "gross negligence or willful, wanton, or intentional misconduct".


*** I am not even remotely a lawyer but I've done a lot of research abt Adverse Possession in various states. YMMV




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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 7 on 9/21/2017 3:13 AM >
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I guess if it is legal you could always move to somewhere where it's not ;)




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Pearson 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 8 on 9/21/2017 3:36 PM >
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Posted by Quarantine
I'd be curious to see the full text of this in context with the rest of the related state statutes, but my reading of it is that this is probably related to Adverse Possession doctrine. This doctrine (coded in law in many/most US states) is essentially heavily-stipulated squatters rights, allowing for someone other than the lawful owner to gain legal possession of a property that is "Abandoned" (generally defined as being unoccupied and having a delinquent tax bill) if 1. The non-owner occupies the property for a period of time (usually 3-5 years) 2. The lawful owner makes no attempt to remove the occupier during that period of time 3. The occupier makes efforts to secure & maintain the property during that time.

My guess is that this statute is related to #3; in a city with many abandoned properties it can behoove to the city government to allow, if not encourage, reoccupation & rehabilitation of derelict properties that have absent, uncooperative, or deceased legal owners who are failing to pay taxes & allowing the properties to be in a state of disrepair that would require costly demolitions by the municipal government if a 3rd party did not step in. Local governments love private property rights, but they also love not ending up with a bunch of shitty abandoned houses on their hands that they have to maintain or demolish.

I don't believe this would cover urban exploring in general, although with a good enough lawyer one could perhaps pass a claim that they were simply inspecting the property. Something tells me that entering a building to simply hang out and take recreational photos would be considered by the court "gross negligence or willful, wanton, or intentional misconduct".


*** I am not even remotely a lawyer but I've done a lot of research abt Adverse Possession in various states. YMMV


It has to do with mortgage and bank companies, in this case you have to be a lien holder for the bank who owns said property.




4Valhal 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 9 on 9/21/2017 6:44 PM >
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We've often joked that we'll just take trash bags with us and if we're ever caught just say we were cleaning up the place. Doing our civic duty, you know?

If you go back to council minutes (don't quote me) I believe this passing was for third party owners (lien holders) and those in the community with a vested interest in the property for cleanup and such.

I do know you can use this to seek permission from the city to clean up derelict buildings in your neighborhood as well.

On something like this the real answer to your question is "How much did you pay your lawyer?" because it could definitely be used to get you out of some trouble, but also used against you in the right situations.

It's only illegal if you get caught, right?




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Dee Ashley 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 10 on 9/21/2017 9:16 PM >
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This OP still hasn't been banned yet??
I must be missing something.




I wandered till the stars went dim.
OH_ZOG_NO 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 11 on 9/21/2017 9:30 PM >
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Posted by Dee Ashley
I must be missing something.


Yeah im not sure why we keep him around.




Dee Ashley 


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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 12 on 9/22/2017 10:41 AM >
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In Texas, this sounds like "Adverse Possession." In the most basic sense, Adverse Possession is kind of like what some people think of as "squatter's rights" (and a loophole that has recently been tightened up because of this obscure law becoming not as obscure after a couple of people were able to successfully invoke these rights on other people's property).

Or it could be something completely different.
I'm not a lawyer, but it has similar sounding qualities.




I wandered till the stars went dim.
Dee Ashley 


Location: DFW, Texas
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Re: Urbex is legal in Kansas city!?
< Reply # 13 on 9/22/2017 11:07 AM >
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Posted by Pear


It has to do with mortgage and bank companies, in this case you have to be a lien holder for the bank who owns said property.


Not necessarily.

This guy dug up the old statute right down the road from me in a neighboring city and moved into a $350,000 (foreclosed) house for $16! He was there for seven months I believe:
https://www.dallas...e-a-hero-to-others

https://www.dallas...ship-for-squatters

He was finally evicted, however, and this loophole has been significantly tightened after the Flower Mound incident:
http://www.dallaso...ut-a-fight-7109428

***
(I just saw the way better explanation by Quarantine regarding Adverse Possession laws a few posts up).




I wandered till the stars went dim.
UER Forum > US: Great Lakes > Urbex is legal in Kansas city!? (Viewed 2054 times)


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