I haven't been on here in probably 3 or 4 years. Just stopping by to see if there is still that weird vibe where the noobs try really hard to prove themselves and the vets constantly talk down to almost every one? Please confirm. I would love to actually use this forum as a resource if MSP folks have lightened up.

Elitism? In MSP? You jest!

Still the same old huh?

Posted by frecklepuss I haven't been on here in probably 3 or 4 years. Just stopping by to see if there is still that weird vibe where the noobs try really hard to prove themselves and the vets constantly talk down to almost every one? Please confirm. I would love to actually use this forum as a resource if MSP folks have lightened up.

I'll tell yer mom to lighten up.

Weird vibe? Whatever.

A lot of noobs, in an effort to "prove themselves", post photos and blatant information about our constantly-dwindling supply of locations. Lately, it hardly matters whether a location is "sensitive" or not. The overall scarcity of our remaining locations makes them all a sore subject for people to discuss in these very-public forums of UER.

While a polite level of tact and understanding would go a long way to keeping discussions here friendly, there's a large contingent of folks who are exasperated by UER and are quick to snap. There are forum policies here that punish locals for doing stuff like requesting pictures be taken down, as any attempt to censor or control the information pertaining to what we view as sensitive locations is treated as bullying by certain higher ups on this very non-Minnesota-run website.

If you meet local explorers in person, that is the absolute best way to see our community's best face forward. We are generally very friendly and fun people at meetups and gatherings, which is how we prefer to do business with new explorers. Open discussion on UER about a lot of detail-specific stuff, however, is frowned upon. And that will get you yelled at by veterans.

I understand what you're saying and totally agree with you. But at the same time it's super lame that the "best way" to connect with other explorers is in person. The only people I've ever run into were either copper pirates, wannabe taggers fingerblasting their girlfriend while their friend watched, or homeless people. Meanwhile there's a forum that could be used to connect people but it's filled with mostly pretentious users in cool-guy friend groups. Kind of frustrating. Not really trying to stir the pot, just being direct so I know if it's worth checking back here.

Posted by frecklepuss I haven't been on here in probably 3 or 4 years. Just stopping by to see if there is still that weird vibe where the noobs try really hard to prove themselves and the vets constantly talk down to almost every one? Please confirm. I would love to actually use this forum as a resource if MSP folks have lightened up.

You had the opportunity to reintroduce yourself in a positive light ...but went a different route.


Seems like you're still pretty upset.

I'm not upset at all. Like I said, it was frustrating and I'm just being direct at this point.

MSP has no new tunnels so we all moved to australia

Posted by Dalmaticus You had the opportunity to reintroduce yourself in a positive light ...but went a different route. Seems like you're still pretty upset.

I love reading things in your voice. It makes them so much better for me. ;)

Posted by Clockwork I'll tell yer mom to lighten up. Weird vibe? Whatever. A lot of noobs, in an effort to "prove themselves", post photos and blatant information about our constantly-dwindling supply of locations. Lately, it hardly matters whether a location is "sensitive" or not. The overall scarcity of our remaining locations makes them all a sore subject for people to discuss in these very-public forums of UER. While a polite level of tact and understanding would go a long way to keeping discussions here friendly, there's a large contingent of folks who are exasperated by UER and are quick to snap. There are forum policies here that punish locals for doing stuff like requesting pictures be taken down, as any attempt to censor or control the information pertaining to what we view as sensitive locations is treated as bullying by certain higher ups on this very non-Minnesota-run website. If you meet local explorers in person, that is the absolute best way to see our community's best face forward. We are generally very friendly and fun people at meetups and gatherings, which is how we prefer to do business with new explorers. Open discussion on UER about a lot of detail-specific stuff, however, is frowned upon. And that will get you yelled at by veterans.

This ^

Posted by frecklepuss I understand what you're saying and totally agree with you. But at the same time it's super lame that the "best way" to connect with other explorers is in person. The only people I've ever run into were either copper pirates, wannabe taggers fingerblasting their girlfriend while their friend watched, or homeless people. Meanwhile there's a forum that could be used to connect people but it's filled with mostly pretentious users in cool-guy friend groups. Kind of frustrating. Not really trying to stir the pot, just being direct so I know if it's worth checking back here.

So are you actually trying to meet up with people with this post? Or are you trying to stir the pot? Because it really sounds like you're trying to stir the pot.

MSP ELITE? Who dat? You trippin.... aint no MSP ELITE. Caves annnn drains an shit.....








"Not a paid spokes person for MSP ELITE"

Posted by cdevon "Not a paid spokes person for MSP ELITE"

you aint the paid spokes person, you are THE CREATOR

Posted by frecklepuss But at the same time it's super lame that the "best way" to connect with other explorers is in person.

The majority of the local exploring community thinks this "best way" is preferable, and not super lame at all. In-person meeting, chatting, and maybe a little exploring are all much better ways to gauge and individual than an open online conversation on a public forum.

Posted by frecklepuss The only people I've ever run into were either copper pirates, wannabe taggers fingerblasting their girlfriend while their friend watched, or homeless people. Meanwhile there's a forum that could be used to connect people

When I say the best way is to meet up in person, I don't mean random chance encounters while already out exploring. UER is a great tool for networking with new explorers (especially out of towners) and sending messages to people to coordinate meetups and small excursions. This forum is great for connecting people.

Posted by frecklepuss but it's filled with mostly pretentious users in cool-guy friend groups. Kind of frustrating. Not really trying to stir the pot, just being direct so I know if it's worth checking back here.

You're coming at this with the belief we are mostly pretentious and/or in cliquey friend groups? It's hard to not feel a bit stirred in the ol' pot.

I understand your frustration as far as online conversations go. But I guess it all boils down to what you're expecting from UER. If you want to anonymously jump into an open conversation thread and derive substantive value and information regarding local exploring, this forum isn't going to be "worth checking back" for. If you want easy access to some explorer contacts to whom you can begin sending private messages and work out coordinating a meetup, UER is a great resource.

Posted by frecklepuss I understand what you're saying and totally agree with you. But at the same time it's super lame that the "best way" to connect with other explorers is in person. The only people I've ever run into were either copper pirates, wannabe taggers fingerblasting their girlfriend while their friend watched, or homeless people. Meanwhile there's a forum that could be used to connect people but it's filled with mostly pretentious users in cool-guy friend groups. Kind of frustrating.

Easy squeezie: "Hey, guys, I'd really like to meet up with some local explorers because I'm sick to death of all the fingerblasting that's going on out there. Anyone wanna grab a (coffee/beer) sometime (when I can be available)?

Thanks!

Posted by frecklepuss But at the same time it's super lame that the "best way" to connect with other explorers is in person.

Clockwork already beat me to the punch, but FWIW...

For the life of me I have never been able to figure out what is so difficult for most people on these forums to understand. People make it sound like its sooooo difficult to get involved in the exploring community here, as if we are all a bunch of unapproachable elitist ass holes.

I really think you need to change your approach if you're really serious about this. A little bit of humbleness goes a long way with a lot of explorers. If you're simply unwilling to contact other locals and go out exploring, then sorry, nobody here is going to be of any help to you.

The fact is, that we have some of the most diverse, interesting, kind, dedicated, funny explorers residing in the twin cities. I'm sorry that you think its "super lame" to connect with explorers in person, and that you and every other armchair UER explorer would rather sit on UER and make blanket judgements about the very people who are out there exploring whom you know nothing about.

Here's an honest question. Have you ever actually tried to reach out (UER or otherwise) to another local via private message to go exploring? Nobody is going to come to you.

Come on in, the water's fine.

Just my 2 cents

Posted by frecklepuss I would love to actually use this forum as a resource if MSP folks have lightened up.

Just one more thing while I'm thinking about it. UER will NEVER be a good resource for exploring in MSP, exploring is the best resource for exploring in MSP (redundant, but its true). That's why the MSP people troll this forum so hard. People see this forum as a viable resource for UE which it never will be. Get out there and do it!

I'd have to agree with the other locals here. Meeting in person is 1000% better way to get involved. The first time I came to MSP (as an explorer who had never met any other established folks), I felt very welcomed and able to get along great with almost everyone. Today when I meet new explorers I get a much better sense of what they're like than from talking to them online.

However, I do know the feeling the OP is talking about. Years ago I tried participating in the local legit caving club (for natural caves). There was a huge vibe of "oh, you're one of those filthy drainers". I got the feeling that anyone younger than 40 was the enemy. I did not feel welcome in the group, and didn't attend more than a few meetings. It turns out that's a terrible thing for a community. That legit caving club is almost extinct these days. They can't attract new members, can't find anything new to explore, and seem to have given up on their newsletter and mailing list.

MSP explorers tend to be more friendly and open minded in person than they are online. I've seen the same thing in a few other communities, especially Paris. If you show up on a Cataphile forum asking about maps or entrances, you'll get laughed at / insulted / lied to / etc. But if you run into cataphiles underground they will most likely be very friendly and show you something cool.

Ill offer some of my thoughts from the perspective of a new guy..

Judging by the 6 year time stamp on your account, you've been at this a lot longer than myself. Maybe you've just had bad experiences and maybe I just got lucky.. However I do see what you mean about this 'weird vibe' and general hostility of the MSP community you speak of, when I first got into this whole thing I was a bit intimidated myself. This has pretty much already been said, but in a nutshell, the MSP community is like this is because there is an ever decreasing amount of cool shit here, and an ever increasing number of utterly stupid people to fuck it up. There are many fine examples of word getting around to the wrong people in this area and having spots completely ruined because of it.


Pretty much every time something gets heated on this forum, at least from what I've noticed, there has been a reason for it, and that reason is because someone, knowingly or not, did something stupid. Such as posting pictures of entrances, pictures of themselves vandalizing cool shit, disclosing sensitive information and the list goes on. The cops aren't completely daft and they do know what the internet is, and I would not be surprised if there are cops on this forum checking to see which locations are hot. Simply acknowledging the fact that you were at a location or that it even exists is sometimes enough to compromise it, let alone posting detailed and revealing pictures.


UER is a good place to make your "try hard noob" posts, in hopes someone notices you and sends you a PM, and not much else. I have made several such posts here myself. like it has been said already, UER is a place to make initial connections, not a place for you to post all of your pictures and talk about exactly how you got in or where a place is. UER is how I connected with the people I went on my first mission with, and these people did not reach out to me because I came at them bitching about how they run things or their attitude. They reached out to me because I demonstrated a basic level of respect for what they do and where they do it, and showed that I was willing to do things their way and pass that knowledge to everyone I know as repayment for what they have shown me. These people are the ones who are more experienced, they have the know how, the plans, the maps and the connections. So why not try to make friends with them? It is true, at least the people that I have met, that they are all very nice people and once you connect with them in REAL LIFE that they have a lot to offer and are willing to share as long as you can prove yourself. Everyone can wear and hide behind the mask of their username, which is why this community values personal interaction.

As I've come to know these people I have stopped using this forum, because frankly with stuff like this, as little as possible should be made public online. If you want to explore the Sekret Tunnelz then go fucking find them or demonstrate enough respect to have someone show them to you. I understand why this forum exists, because yes everyone likes to share what they have done and connect with and talk to others about it, but if people REALLY value these places and everything that the community here stands for, then they should seriously think about what they post here. IT also seems to be an MSP culture thing. If you walk on over to some indigenous African tribe and tell them that the way they are living is wrong and your way is superior, they will not take kindly to it and probably lop off your genitals and play catch with them. I think this is why you feel this community is hostile. Like I said, I felt the same way in the beginning but I just continued to do my thing and not piss anyone off and now I know how knowledgeable, kind, and accepting these people are. Just gotta keep the fuckwits out, and that is no easy task.

Time has shown what being open about this stuff can do, which is why I think the community is so withdrawn. People fuck shit up, and the people who actually care don't want shit fucked up so they try to find out if a person has desirable qualities before they share anything.


Adjust your perspective.

Lots of good info on the way things are handled here. Lots of butt hurt too. I'm smart enough to know people don't want to have conversations about location specific things on a public forum. I understand the guarded nature in which everyone wants to handle things and I'm totally down with that, I picked up on it quick after I joined. I'm pretty sure Clockwork messaged me and gave me a run down.

ANYWAYS, I wasn't expecting to get scolded this bad. I'm used to the smart ass comments like the one about how everyone moved to Australia, which is obviously not true since all the photos aren't upside down. Nice try.

Seeing as how exploring has always been kind of a solo thing for me and I already have like 3 friends I'll probably just continue to stick to myself. Wasn't looking for hand outs or anything just friendly interaction with people who have common interests in exploring. Judging by how wound up most of the responses were I don't think we'd get along anyway.