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UER Forum > UE Main > Excuses, excuses, excuses! (Viewed 5442 times)
KannibalKandy 


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Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< on 8/23/2016 6:57 AM >
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So I was curious, have any of ever lied or given excuses to authorities, security guards, passer byes, shop owners, etc as to why you were checking out an abandoned location or what you were doing around the area? What did you say? If not "busted" by the po-po, what should one say to keep themselves out of trouble? I definitely understand respect.



I'm not going to go into extreme details with my story and I'll try to sum up what happened with my first encounter with a security guard.

It was broad daylight out and I was going down a private road on an industrial work property that had cars going by, and where I wanted to get to was on a road that I knew was on a community property road, but google maps screwed me over and gave me the private road instead. So I thought I would take my chances and make something up if someone asked me what I was doing. A car passed me as I walked down the dirt street, trying to look as if I belonged there with my camera (I don't know, I'm still a baby to exploring by myself), and the car swings around back down the road and I thought "shit, maybe he forgot something" (yea right), and I continued on my way. A man towards a small trailer building looked my way and asked if he could help me, the jig was up. I asked him (as I lied through my teeth) that I wanted to find an official building of sorts that would allow me access to the property so I could go see the church, for photography, that was not connected to the industrial properties private road, and he was very helpful with telling me the process I had to undertake. The jackass car that turned around, when I first started off down the road, had apparently gotten a security guard, and she drove up to us as said jackass car proceeded to leave. I told the woman what I had asked the man, and she said the same thing, but once I said I wanted to take photos of "the church" she knew exactly what I was talking about, told me of a non-private road, and said it was "technically" community property. Thanks to her I have a new route to take whenever I get a chance to go back and explore the supposedly haunted abandoned church.




"I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart." - The Ink Spots
Intrinsic 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 1 on 8/23/2016 7:17 AM >
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You're a historian documenting the past.

What else really matters?




13thmurder 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 2 on 8/23/2016 7:21 AM >
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That doesn't sound like an excuse, it sounded like you got permission basically.




KannibalKandy 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 3 on 8/23/2016 7:28 AM >
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Posted by 13thmurder
That doesn't sound like an excuse, it sounded like you got permission basically.


Eh, I guess, but it wasn't what the natural intention was. I only said it because I was caught, I wouldn't have actually gone to get the pass. I probably would have found a different way in, I don't know.




"I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart." - The Ink Spots
KD20 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 4 on 8/23/2016 3:40 PM >
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I would honestly just go with the truth. You're interested in the history or architecture or photography and wanted to get some pictures of it. I've had very few run-ins, but I've never really needed to say anything more than that. Plus, if you start lying, you run the risk of hanging yourself with your own words. One that amused me was the time I told an older lady I was working on a project and she thought I was a newspaper photographer until I told her it was a personal project. Then she said something about how it's nice to see young people interested in history and continued walking.




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bobbyl16 


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midnight explorer

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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 5 on 8/23/2016 3:46 PM >
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that was pretty calm and clever of you actually.

You didn't over react....thats perfect.


When i was pulled over by a cop, who saw me pull out of the parking lot of the abandoned warehouse, i just stayed calm, and said i used the parking lot for a U turn...And acted like the most innocent person in the world lol

So far I have only been questioned once while scouting a place. It might be tougher actually caught in one




Marsden107 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 6 on 8/23/2016 3:47 PM >
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There's this old maintenance shed in the back of this forest preserve that I frequent. It's really just a huge time capsule. The cops frequent this part of the forest preserve at night because it's a frequent heroin spot.I saw one coming and booked it to one of the trails. He was blocking the closet way out so I walk up to him on the main trail and he asks

"What're you doing here, the park closest at dusk"

"oh sorry officer I Was walking my dog earlier and I dropped my wallet on one of the trails, just wanted to find it before someone else did"

"oh, okay, just don't be in the park after dark"

walked out. It was great.



[last edit 8/23/2016 5:10 PM by Marsden107 - edited 1 times]

Never waste a day.
blackhawk 

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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 7 on 8/23/2016 3:57 PM >
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Never lie when the truth would serve better.




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EsseXploreR 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 8 on 8/23/2016 4:33 PM >
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Best thing to do is play stupid. I had to deal with this a few days ago as a matter of fact.

I was scoping out a former theater that was partially renovated into stores. The lobby area was clearly occupied, but the auditorium appeared to be in really bad shape. So I drove up, found a place to park and walked over. The auditorium was clearly vacant. The fire escapes had been removed, and the doors padlocked. I walked up the alley between the auditorium and an office next door and found the building was sealed up tight. No matter, as I really had no intention of going inside at the time anyway. When I came back out of the alley, an older gentleman called over to me.

"Hey, what were you doing back there?"

"I'm sorry?" I replied, as my hearing is not great.

He repeated himself, and I could tell he seemed a little bit irritated that I was there, so I just played stupid and told the truth.

"Oh I was just looking at the building."

"What for?"

"It looks like it used to be a theater. I love old theaters, I just wanted to take a look."

He simply said "Yeah" and continued to stand there. I took another look at the building and split. Folks generally see dumb folks as harmless, so no matter what, don't try and argue or let them know the abandonment is what you drove out for.




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Marsden107 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 9 on 8/23/2016 5:09 PM >
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Posted by EsseXploreR
Folks generally see dumb folks as harmless, so no matter what, don't try and argue or let them know the abandonment is what you drove out for.


Unless you're a teenager. Then they automatically assume that you're up to no good.




Never waste a day.
Radical_Ed 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 10 on 8/23/2016 6:29 PM >
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I ALWAYS appear as if I'm up to "no good".
The majority of the time, I am.




"Are you happy now with all the choices you've made?" "Are there times in life when you know you should've stayed?"
"Will you compromise and then realize the price is too much to pay?" "Winners and losers... which one will you be today?"
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LongLegs 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 11 on 8/23/2016 7:10 PM >
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Posted by Marsden107

Unless you're a teenager. Then they automatically assume that you're up to no good.


god bless this, as an early 20 year old the amount of people that think i'm actually trying to like summon satan while simultaneously shooting up 3 needles full of heroin instead of just taking pictures. The second they see the camera and you explain what you're doing though most people instantly seem to perk up and relax about whatever you're doing.

I haven't had any bad encounters with people, but this weekend when the gf and I were checking out the pines we took a really obscure route through a field of tall grass, so we couldn't see how clear our exit was. What we had forgotten was that it was Saturday and the pines is across from multiple Hasidic communities. So after walking around the place for a few hours, we were exiting through the tall grass and after listening for a car to pass we spilled out of the grass, jumping over an exposed pipe and onto the sidewalk. Directly in front of a group of maybe 9 Hasidic people walking down the street, cause you know, it's the sabbath so no driving. So me and my girlfriend come spilling out onto the sidewalk in front this group, look across the street and see some people from the neighboring community sitting on their porch staring at us. No words were said, just really surprised and awkwardly stern looks. After looking back and forth uncomfortably for about 4 seconds I said "well that wasn't a very good shortcut" and the gf kind of just shook her head and we speed walked it away from the disapproving glares




EsseXploreR 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 12 on 8/23/2016 7:29 PM >
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Posted by Marsden107


Unless you're a teenager. Then they automatically assume that you're up to no good.


Ha, it wasn't all that long ago that I was a teen, and can definitely remember some harsh attitudes when stopped. Mostly by the police, caretakers have never really had a problem with me.




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NotQuiteHuman 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 13 on 8/23/2016 8:41 PM >
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If you're really in a pickle, remember:

-if it's just security, they can't really do much besides call the real police. Just leave immediately.
-if you are detained by police. DO NOT TALK TO THEM or consent to a search if you don't have to. Talking to police will only help them build a case against you no matter what you say. Everyone should know your rights and assert them when needed. This video gets posted every now and then. I usually watch a couple times a year to brush up. https://www.youtub...atch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I also found this on youtube. The officers were completely out of line, but the suspects asserted their rights and handled it well. I followed the case and all of the charges were dropped and shortly after the "lurking laws" were repealed. https://www.youtub...atch?v=kKXHV91IH6s




blackhawk 

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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 14 on 8/23/2016 11:06 PM >
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Posted by NotQuiteHuman
If you're really in a pickle, remember:

-if it's just security, they can't really do much besides call the real police. Just leave immediately.
-if you are detained by police. DO NOT TALK TO THEM or consent to a search if you don't have to. Talking to police will only help them build a case against you no matter what you say. Everyone should know your rights and assert them when needed. This video gets posted every now and then. I usually watch a couple times a year to brush up. https://www.youtub...atch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I also found this on youtube. The officers were completely out of line, but the suspects asserted their rights and handled it well. I followed the case and all of the charges were dropped and shortly after the "lurking laws" were repealed. https://www.youtub...atch?v=kKXHV91IH6s


A security guard can do a citizens arrest. Laws vary from state to state.
http://www.crimedo...urity_guards_2.htm

Not making a statement to police is different to not talking to them... if you make no statement or answer none of their questions, they will either hold you and investigate, cut you loose, or charge you which they may not have done if you cooperated. Don't turn a simple stop into a murder defense...
I've talk to lots of cops, and have been interviewed by the FBI. Playing hardball with them for no good criminal reason is pointless.
I've shown both all the images they wanted to see and answered their questions in full, truthfully.

Results? Free reign to shoot at a fair for a lifetime, words of advice to avoid another FBI visit when shooting in a 911 hotspot, a police intervening and reducing two felony charges to municipal misdemeanors plus the key to the gate at a Nike site. Many more times when cops stopped and ask what I was doing, I told them. They left me keep shooting almost every time.

Cops are easy. Know where the lines are and don't cross them when talking to them. Don't act nervous and keep your hands in plain site at all times.
Do what they ask; being compliant goes a long way with them and they gauge you by it.
Cops don't like to arrest a descent person with no criminal history who isn't being a criminal asshole. Pissing off a cop never helps. Don't fuel their anger; try to put yourself in their shoes.
Don't shoot shots that seem inappropriate especially of people.

Even if you refuse to show your images, they can get a search warrant.




Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
NotQuiteHuman 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 15 on 8/24/2016 12:18 AM >
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Posted by blackhawk


A security guard can do a citizens arrest. Laws vary from state to state.
http://www.crimedo...urity_guards_2.htm

Not making a statement to police is different to not talking to them... if you make no statement or answer none of their questions, they will either hold you and investigate, cut you loose, or charge you which they may not have done if you cooperated. Don't turn a simple stop into a murder defense...
I've talk to lots of cops, and have been interviewed by the FBI. Playing hardball with them for no good criminal reason is pointless.
I've shown both all the images they wanted to see and answered their questions in full, truthfully.

Results? Free reign to shoot at a fair for a lifetime, words of advice to avoid another FBI visit when shooting in a 911 hotspot, a police intervening and reducing two felony charges to municipal misdemeanors plus the key to the gate at a Nike site. Many more times when cops stopped and ask what I was doing, I told them. They left me keep shooting almost every time.

Cops are easy. Know where the lines are and don't cross them when talking to them. Don't act nervous and keep your hands in plain site at all times.
Do what they ask; being compliant goes a long way with them and they gauge you by it.
Cops don't like to arrest a descent person with no criminal history who isn't being a criminal asshole. Pissing off a cop never helps. Don't fuel their anger; try to put yourself in their shoes.
Don't shoot shots that seem inappropriate especially of people.

Even if you refuse to show your images, they can get a search warrant.

Yep, sorry I wrote that in a hurry. There are some things you need to tell if you are stopped, such as your name. You shouldn't just stonewall them, but keep in mind they can use anything you say against you if it ends up going that far. Also, it depends on the situation I suppose. In your scenario, a cop stopped to ask you what you were doing, you told him, and he was ok with that, so I'm guessing you weren't doing something that illegal. In which case I might do the same or just play dumb if there were no obvious no trespassing signs.

If I was doing something a bit riskier and I think making a statement to the police will be the difference between me ending up with a ticket or walking away free, I will certainly not incriminate myself. You're not obligated to answer all of their questions. I don't see asserting my rights as "playing hardball". If more people did it, it wouldn't be seen that way and it would be harder for cops to take advantage of people. I'm not saying lie or be disrespectful to an officer. That won't get you anywhere.

Example: Let's say you were seen in a location by someone who calls the police, you leave, then get stopped by police outside the property. In that scenario, there is no way I'm admitting to being on the property and, no, they can't see my camera. I'm just going for a walk or playing pokemon go.

When it comes down to it, say whatever you think is best for the particular situation, but I feel like a lot of trespassing tickets can be avoided by not giving the police the info they need to cite you.

Edit: I am not a lawyer. I am just sharing the ways I have handled such situations. Please look up and familiarize yourself with the laws in your local area.



[last edit 8/24/2016 12:21 AM by NotQuiteHuman - edited 1 times]

blackhawk 

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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 16 on 8/24/2016 1:13 AM >
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Posted by NotQuiteHuman

Yep, sorry I wrote that in a hurry. There are some things you need to tell if you are stopped, such as your name. You shouldn't just stonewall them, but keep in mind they can use anything you say against you if it ends up going that far. Also, it depends on the situation I suppose. In your scenario, a cop stopped to ask you what you were doing, you told him, and he was ok with that, so I'm guessing you weren't doing something that illegal. In which case I might do the same or just play dumb if there were no obvious no trespassing signs.

If I was doing something a bit riskier and I think making a statement to the police will be the difference between me ending up with a ticket or walking away free, I will certainly not incriminate myself. You're not obligated to answer all of their questions. I don't see asserting my rights as "playing hardball". If more people did it, it wouldn't be seen that way and it would be harder for cops to take advantage of people. I'm not saying lie or be disrespectful to an officer. That won't get you anywhere.

Example: Let's say you were seen in a location by someone who calls the police, you leave, then get stopped by police outside the property. In that scenario, there is no way I'm admitting to being on the property and, no, they can't see my camera. I'm just going for a walk or playing pokemon go.

When it comes down to it, say whatever you think is best for the particular situation, but I feel like a lot of trespassing tickets can be avoided by not giving the police the info they need to cite you.


I sort thought that's you what meant.
There are some that even refuse to give their name... that tends to go downhill and to the station quick.
Each situation is different and fluid. They may also have confused you with another suspect of a serious crime they're are investigating.
A relaxed cop is a lot easier to deal with.
They hate being lied to, if you have to lie do as you already stated, lie by omission. Some cops even respect that you had the wherewithal and the respect for them to do that. Stupid liars are the worst.
Never lie when the truth or -silence- would serve you better.
Let the cop lead and pace the conversation, don't volunteer information.
Don't fidget and act nervous by being talkative. Think about what the cop is asking you and pause to consider it if need be. Giving the right answers without undo hesitation makes you better though. Never change your story, one reason the truth or omission works better many times.
Know where the line is and don't cross it. Lol, yeah don't dime yourself out.

There are exceptions though. For instance if you were merely trespassing and witnessed a serious crime, the cops will be more interested in your information about it than arresting you for trespassing. At that point telling them the whole truth in a timely fashion is imperative.
If you're trespassing were you know they're writing trespassers up on sight, this applies as long as you didn't commit a felony or anything worse than trespass.
Bottom line, don't act like a harden criminal unless you are one.

The more you understand how LEOs train, operate and think, the better.
Talk with them when they aren't busy and shoot the shit. Be sincere; don't pump them for info. Most are people persons and easy to get along with.
Many will go out of their way to help you if you approach them right. I've had K9 handlers give their dogs the playtime command and played fetch with their dogs (strange) or taken shots of them. Even had some cops pose with donuts.

Edit: Android auto spell bites...



[last edit 8/24/2016 8:00 PM by blackhawk - edited 3 times]

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KannibalKandy 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 17 on 8/24/2016 7:58 PM >
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Posted by blackhawk


Many more times when cops stopped and ask what I was doing, I told them. They left me keep shooting almost every time.




Of course I would be open to the cops with giving them respect, and giving them my name if asked. I understand the concept that showing them that I respect them and that my intentions weren't to be suspicious or that I wasn't a criminal by answering any questions needed would help my case of not getting into a major shithole.

I'm curious, when you told them what you were doing, where you on a property that had "no trespassing" signs or within the abandoned location yourself, or were you near the property? I'm asking since I wanted to know the outcome for when I start to explore more for when I head back to the mainland and explore more, or even if I have a run in with the Hawaiian police.




"I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart." - The Ink Spots
KannibalKandy 


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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 18 on 8/24/2016 7:59 PM >
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Thank you everyone for your posts! It's helpful and nice to hear from other's perspectives.




"I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart." - The Ink Spots
blackhawk 

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Re: Excuses, excuses, excuses!
< Reply # 19 on 8/24/2016 9:31 PM >
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Posted by KannibalKandy



Of course I would be open to the cops with giving them respect, and giving them my name if asked. I understand the concept that showing them that I respect them and that my intentions weren't to be suspicious or that I wasn't a criminal by answering any questions needed would help my case of not getting into a major shithole.

I'm curious, when you told them what you were doing, where you on a property that had "no trespassing" signs or within the abandoned location yourself, or were you near the property? I'm asking since I wanted to know the outcome for when I start to explore more for when I head back to the mainland and explore more, or even if I have a run in with the Hawaiian police.


They may ask to see your images if they suspect You committed a serious crime. I don't shoot images that make my subjects look bad when shooting people. That has saved my from a cop hell bent on arresting me; although I got multiple AF locks, I never shot it because it was an inferior shot. That was at a fair with some dumb ass 16 yo in the dunking booth; public photo. However the year before they arrested a true pedophile shooting children in compromising positions so this cop was amped up. They later found child porn on the perp's computer.

He looked at my images, then another cop and finally a Lt. Nothing but good images. The Lt then asked the fair president what she wanted done. She said "Hell let him shoot!" After that I had free reign at that fair, year after year. Too funny. A fireman I was friendly with told me the whole story; the cops never did reveal what they were looking for.

I've also shown my images on my computer to two FBI field agents that showed up unannounced, without a warrant at my door. Yes, they really do that. Do what you say, say what you do...

Different places, different situations. I've been asked to leave and sometimes just told to be careful by local cops when shooting trains on Am track property. I've lost count and track how many times cops have come up to me. Generally if it's a sealed up, properly posted site they will be much more likely to do more than talk. On sites not posted properly they've just ask what I'm doing and drove off; they're looking for scrapers, drugs, etc.
Many cops understand some people like to shoot and with a bunch of pro gear it's pretty obvious that's what you're doing. Many times if you look like a pro shooter they don't say anything or even let you in areas normally restricted at public events. I lot of that is how you look and carry yourself. Many times I'll chat with cops at events, etc if they aren't busy.
There are two or three I know fairly well in TX that have taught me a lot and helped me out of jams.

Having integrity in the way you conduct yourself, being honest and respectful goes a long way when dealing with LEOs. It makes their job easier. A good LEO never likes to bust a good guy... listen to what they are saying, then put yourself in their shoes. Compliance or not, to their commands will determine much to how they handle many situations both physically and legally.




Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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