Posted by Dee Ashley A friend of mine has Lyme disease. It's no joke. What's worse, we don't really understand Lyme disease, so it seems to me that it's mostly a guessing game when it comes to a treatment and it stays with you for life (hence the disease part).

Lyme is not a guessing game. If that's the doctors attitude get a new one. Not treated in time it can maim and kill. The tell tale bulls eye rash is a dead on indicator that you've been infected. A sore throat, fever, headache similar to strep follow the rash usually. It felt like I had been hit by a freight train when it nailed me.

At this point it can be treated with doxycycline oral for 30 days. In my case that didn't work; it knock it down a notch, but still sick. Scary. OK plan b, 30 days on oral erythromycin, oh fun times.
What the Lyme didn't fuck up, two months on antibiotics did. But it was dead. Ya!
Took another 4 months until I was feeling 100%, 6 months of suffering. I developed an allergy to yellow corn and whey isolate too, fuck!

I know one person who has permanent nerve damage in his leg and lung damage from it. It wasn't diagnosed in time. Another died from a heart attack two years later at 46.

In some genetically susceptible people the bacteria deposit protein markers on cartilage surfaces in the joints. The immune system continues to mistakenly attack these marked surfaces even after the Lyme is eradicated. Unlike most human disease causing bacteria that like iron; these little devils like manganese. Cartilage has a high manganese content. This is not an active infection but an autoimmune disease triggered by the Lyme's.
It tends to get better after 10 years.

If the bacteria progress past the first stages, oral antibiotics are ineffective. Lyme is similar to the more virulent spirochete caused disease, syphilis. Both go through similar stages and are harder to eradicate in the latter stages. Staging can progress more rapidly than some estimates; prompt treatment is needed. In stage 3 and especially stage 4 IV antibiotics are needed with Lyme; it's much harder to treat than syphilis.
Syphilis still responds well to penicillin.

Not everyone gets the bulls eye rash, and there are other lethal infections that ticks transmit such as Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. You can be infected with multiple infections from one bite too.
Those with fevers, headaches should see a doctor promptly. Always let the doctor know if you had exposure to ticks.

The small juvenile deer ticks are most likely to transmit Lyme's.
Best to check well for ticks at the end of each day.
It's worth it.
Tieing off your pants to your boots helps too when in the field. Tuck your shirt in. Check your pant legs and boot tops frequently.

Dang Blackhawk youre a walking encyclopedia. I guess I don't know why I don't have this Ive been covered with ticks growing up for 60 years outdoors hunting camping hiking fishing partying even rock climbing where cows and deer cannot go but their tick thrive, maybe I have had it Ive been through some similar symptoms. Is it possible to get it, ignore it and just tough it out till the spirochetes all die from old age haha ? Maybe that's whats wrong with me or personality disorders ;)


Anyway I ran across a bunch of pages 18-20 years ago about Plum Island Im sure you've heard this but for the entertainment factor here the first one I googled up.

http://hubpages.co...symptoms-treatment

(maybe some moderator will move this to the Lyme disease forum or the conspiracy private board)

Posted by 2Xplorations Dang Blackhawk youre a walking encyclopedia. I guess I don't know why I don't have this Ive been covered with ticks growing up for 60 years outdoors hunting camping hiking fishing partying even rock climbing where cows and deer cannot go but their tick thrive, maybe I have had it Ive been through some similar symptoms. Is it possible to get it, ignore it and just tough it out till the spirochetes all die from old age haha ? Maybe that's whats wrong with me or personality disorders ;) Anyway I ran across a bunch of pages 18-20 years ago about Plum Island Im sure you've heard this but for the entertainment factor here the first one I googled up. http://hubpages.co...symptoms-treatment (maybe some moderator will move this to the Lyme disease forum or the conspiracy private board)

Unlike syphilis, Lyme disease isn't as virulent. Over time a healthy person's immune system may eradicate it. You probably were never exposed.
This is not the worst tick born infection. Once you get one of the illnesses checking for ticks will seem trivial!
If people in your area start getting g Lyme's beware; it's means there's a bunch of infected mice there.

After having it you may develop antibodies that protect you from future infections of that strain.
And maybe not... I've almost certainly have had exposure to in the last 20 years since my illness, but no disease. Either way it's a real pain.
I never saw the tick that nailed me. Got me on me walking across my front lawn. Many of my neighbors had it around that time too.

I can't say I've had lyme disease, but a significant other contracted it and I got to hear about the painful antidote. This person got bit on the middle of their back so they never knew.

Me? Considering the amount of time I spend wading through various undergrowth, I am surprised I don't have more issues than most with deer ticks, especially when you know that the deer tick population in Rhode Island is at abnormal and epidemic levels.

The statistics I just mentioned (however) are not without evidence. A few years back, I did find a deer tick attached to, and happily sucking away on, my scrotum.

Exciting, let me tell you.

(P.S. I am concerned enough about this, that I am going to start it as it's own thread, and also because this was taken off topic) Take it for what it's worth.

Posted by Radical_Ed https://vineyardga...cks_lint_brush.jpg

woah....

tell me that was the result of a google image search, and not you personally.

Posted by 2Xplorations ....... .... Permethrin or even a good dousing with DEET is your friend anywhere there a deer or cattle.

Deet is my closest companion in the summertime, along with my flashlight(s). I don't care if I'm walking into a busy
7-11 or an abandoned factory with 3 out of the 4 walls threatening to collapse at any second, I always keep those two things on me in the summer (the flashlights are always within reach year around - I've been relieved maybe even 30 or 40% of the times that I "knew I wouldn't actually need one," that I went ahead and brought one with me).

Also, my respirator rarely leaves my vehicle, until the very worst of the blistering heat kicks in and everything left behind seems to literally melt. I use it much less frequently than the former items, but it's really nice to have it handy just in case!

Posted by Radical_Ed https://vineyardga...cks_lint_brush.jpg

woah.... tell me that was the result of a google image search, and not you personally.

... yes please! Please elaborate on this thoroughly disturbing lint rolling image! Yikes...

via: Blackhawk: After having it you may develop antibodies that protect you from future infections of that strain.

Interestingly enough, this same friend of mine states that after she contracted the disease, she has never had problems with insect bites! She thinks it has to have something to do with something in her bloodstream as a result of the Lyme. We can be in a jungle (and she wears shorts everywhere), and she never puts on any kind of repellent and will not get one insect bite. Mosquitos, tics, chiggers, nada! Before her exposure, she says was quite vulnerable just like the majority of all of us. At first I thought this could be a bit of an exaggeration, but after plenty of explores together (despite dousing myself in layers of Deet literally from head to toe, I'm usually at least left with a couple of love bites somewhere under the tucked-in, long legged pants/boots combo I'm sporting, while she never applies anything and wears the shorts), I am now a believer in her acquired immunity.

Unfortunately, her disease has not progressed on a "mild" course. It has caused extensive problems, but she wonders how much of that is due to being misdiagnosed for years, maybe even decades, before she was appropriately treated for the correct disease. The symptoms that cropped up were treated, but the root cause was consistently missed. I can't imagine how frustrating that experience would be!

Posted by blackhawk Lyme is not a guessing game.

Then my friend was very unfortunate. Details are in the previous post, but she had to eventually give up her career and many other things due to the health problems that followed. Sadly, a lot of this could have probably been prevented, or at least lessened, if she had been properly diagnosed from the beginning, but this wasn't the case for her for many years.

This might have been further aggravated by the fact she did not remember ever getting bitten. It would stand to reason that this might make a Lyme Disease Dx more easy to overlook.



Edit:
YIKES! My apologies! I just realized that I have inadvertently posted quite a few posts in a row, lol. Merging the posts won't really help since I can't actually delete the consolidated ones.
Additionally, I just now am realizing how off-topic I've veered as well, so I will once again beg for y'all's forgiveness!

Posted by Dee Ashley Then my friend was very unfortunate. Details are in the previous post, but she had to eventually give up her career and many other things due to the health problems that followed. Sadly, a lot of this could have probably been prevented, or at least lessened, if she had been properly diagnosed from the beginning, but this wasn't the case for her for many years. This might have been further aggravated by the fact she did not remember ever getting bitten. It would stand to reason that this might make a Lyme Disease Dx more easy to overlook. Edit: YIKES! My apologies! I just realized that I have inadvertently posted quite a few posts in a row, lol. Merging the posts won't really help since I can't actually delete the consolidated ones. Additionally, I just now am realizing how off-topic I've veered as well, so I will once again beg for y'all's forgiveness!

Damn. Quadposting. Must be on a roll

I think that was a doctor fail, big time.
Almost always other people in the same area become infected as well. Once Lyme's disease progresses into its latter stages it can cause a lot of damage.

It's not unusual to never see the deer tick that nailed you. Most times if you do find them it's because you feel them crawling... the nymphs are quite small and the most likely to transmit the disease.
Doesn't even have to be tall grass. I got nailed walking across my front lawn. Three of my neighbors and at least one dog had it in a 10 year time frame.

I really hate this cavalier arrogance when it comes to asbestos and filter masks.

Obviously you'll track it on yourself, but it will immediately start to disperse when you leave the building. The concentration in the air will always be the worst at the source. Once you leave, there's a finite amount on your clothes. As they say, "Dilution is the solution to pollution". As soon as you wash your clothes, 99% of the asbestos will be gone, reducing the risk significantly.

Asbestos exposure related diseases are all cumulative, meaning any little bit helps. Obviously you want to avoid it if you know about it and can avoid it, but it's almost guaranteed that there will be some airborne hazard in any decent explore. Breathing in concentrated contaminates is a million times worse than breathing the little amount that stuck to you on the way out.

There's also the times where you don't realize what it is until it's too late.

Why risk it? If a filter mask makes you prone to tripping or falling, maybe UE isn't the hobby for you. If you're serious about hell holes, you should be aware of your surroundings. Don't rely on peripheral vision. Make each step intentional. LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING.

Posted by Piecat I really hate this cavalier arrogance when it comes to asbestos and filter masks. Obviously you'll track it on yourself, but it will immediately start to disperse when you leave the building. The concentration in the air will always be the worst at the source. Once you leave, there's a finite amount on your clothes. As they say, "Dilution is the solution to pollution". As soon as you wash your clothes, 99% of the asbestos will be gone, reducing the risk significantly. Asbestos exposure related diseases are all cumulative, meaning any little bit helps. Obviously you want to avoid it if you know about it and can avoid it, but it's almost guaranteed that there will be some airborne hazard in any decent explore. Breathing in concentrated contaminates is a million times worse than breathing the little amount that stuck to you on the way out. There's also the times where you don't realize what it is until it's too late. Why risk it? If a filter mask makes you prone to tripping or falling, maybe UE isn't the hobby for you. If you're serious about hell holes, you should be aware of your surroundings. Don't rely on peripheral vision. Make each step intentional. LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING.

You not viewing this in its proper prospective.
Do you wear a respirator wherever you go? Maybe you better because I've seen asbestos blowing down the streets of Marcos Hook. You've eaten some; it's everywhere to some extent.

Even at the source, exposure will be minimum if you or the elements don't get it airborne. Even then you have to eat a relatively large amount for any sizable risk. If your fool enough to keep going till your nose starts clogging, you ate way too much.
In a heavily contaminated site with free blowing asbestos you really should NOT be there without the training and equipment. Few here even have adequate training to selected/use a respirator let alone to do abatement.
I've used air hoods and respirators for over 38 years. Falls are caused by them with experienced workers in controlled sites; in an abandoned building the risks are much higher. I never wear one if I don't have to. I've worn them when no one else was.... when it was snowing asbestos, literally.

One overlooked hellhole will kill you right there.
Distractions kill. Respirators are a distraction and be themselves cause fatigue. That's even before we get to the limit field of view discussion. The reflex to look down when wearing a respirator is not automatic. The mind tends to ignore what isn't in the line of sight. Hard to unlearn decades of how you learned to use your eyes and slip ups become more likely as you tire.

Posted by blackhawk You not viewing this in its proper prospective. Do you wear a respirator wherever you go? Maybe you better because I've seen asbestos blowing down the streets of Marcos Hook. You've eaten some; it's everywhere to some extent. Even at the source, exposure will be minimum if you or the elements don't get it airborne. Even then you have to eat a relatively large amount for any sizable risk. If your fool enough to keep going till your nose starts clogging, you ate way too much. In a heavily contaminated site with free blowing asbestos you really should NOT be there without the training and equipment. Few here even have adequate training to selected/use a respirator let alone to do abatement. I've used air hoods and respirators for over 38 years. Falls are caused by them with experienced workers in controlled sites; in an abandoned building the risks are much higher. I never wear one if I don't have to. I've worn them when no one else was.... when it was snowing asbestos, literally. One overlooked hellhole will kill you right there. Distractions kill. Respirators are a distraction and be themselves cause fatigue. That's even before we get to the limit field of view discussion. The reflex to look down when wearing a respirator is not automatic. The mind tends to ignore what isn't in the line of sight. Hard to unlearn decades of how you learned to use your eyes and slip ups become more likely as you tire.

Do you wear sunscreen at the beach? I certainly do. Obviously you're not going to block out all of the sun, and you're certainly going to get sun exposure in your daily life, but it's all about risk mitigation. Even though you can get skin cancer from normal life exposure, you're significantly more likely to get skin cancer for each burn you get.

That's how I see wearing a mask. There isn't a minimum exposure that is "safe" (any exposure could cause cancer.) It probably won't, but you're statistically more likely the more exposure you have. Light exposure here and there will likely be filtered out by your respiratory system. Heavier exposure means more fibers will enter your lungs.

I do wear a mask if the building is particularly dusty or moldy, if I'm in a steam tunnel, or if I'm not sure there isn't very friable asbestos around. It's also about comfort: I don't like breathing in dust.

Dust is inevitable. What if you kick some up that doesn't appear to be dangerous but is? It's totally possible that something out of your control gets a significant amount of it airborne. I don't want pidgen lung or mesothelioma or any preventable lung disease. Or what if there is caustic or toxic chemicals in the dust? You can't ever be 100% sure in an industrial building.

I suppose a mask could be a distraction to some, but I've never felt distracted by mine. I always deliberately look at the floor when I'm moving. Even if I'm sure there aren't hell holes around me. Especially when I'm working with my camera. I think that's the practice that we should be teaching: make each step deliberate.

Posted by Piecat Do you wear sunscreen at the beach? I certainly do. Obviously you're not going to block out all of the sun, and you're certainly going to get sun exposure in your daily life, but it's all about risk mitigation. Even though you can get skin cancer from normal life exposure, you're significantly more likely to get skin cancer for each burn you get. That's how I see wearing a mask. There isn't a minimum exposure that is "safe" (any exposure could cause cancer.) It probably won't, but you're statistically more likely the more exposure you have. Light exposure here and there will likely be filtered out by your respiratory system. Heavier exposure means more fibers will enter your lungs. I do wear a mask if the building is particularly dusty or moldy, if I'm in a steam tunnel, or if I'm not sure there isn't very friable asbestos around. It's also about comfort: I don't like breathing in dust. Dust is inevitable. What if you kick some up that doesn't appear to be dangerous but is? It's totally possible that something out of your control gets a significant amount of it airborne. I don't want pidgen lung or mesothelioma or any preventable lung disease. Or what if there is caustic or toxic chemicals in the dust? You can't ever be 100% sure in an industrial building. I suppose a mask could be a distraction to some, but I've never felt distracted by mine. I always deliberately look at the floor when I'm moving. Even if I'm sure there aren't hell holes around me. Especially when I'm working with my camera. I think that's the practice that we should be teaching: make each step deliberate.

There are simply places you shouldn't go. Have the wisdom to recognize these or suffer. A respirator is only a part of what you need in a highly contaminated site with airborne hazmat. Mold spores will cling to -everything-

To a very large extent the lungs are self cleaning. Always breathe through your nose, mask or no mask.
Having done this for close to 50 years and having worked with asbestos, you need to know when to bug out.

If you are hell bent on doing something like a Titan site, and who could blame you, yes take the extra gear. You better be skilled, experienced using and working with the gear. Understand it can prove to be a fatal distraction/burden even for an expert.
Otherwise most sites do not required anything more than a simple paper mask at the most.

Falls and structural collapses are what will maim and kill you. These should be your primary concern.