Posted by sirpsychosexyWhere are the ethics of the owners that let historically valuable items rot away?

So, if I park my car for 3 weeks on the street, and you wander by each day noticing it's not moving, would you decide to yourself, 'Where are the ethics of the owner of this fine automobile, to let it just sit here rotting away?'


My point is that possession is 9/10ths of the law. The owners have a legal right - because they own it - to let it sit there forever, if they so desire.

Posted by siper This isn't stealing. You were essentially hired to salvage these items to create a museum display.

No I think you got me wrong. We dug up these bunkers for years illegally, and took the things we found without permission, because we saw the historical value in them and no one else did. Then the local government realised that WW2 history is kind of a 'hot topic' nowadays so when we asked, they let us dig up a nice bunker and furnish it with our finds. They could've said "hey you stole this stuff from us!" but they know very well that saying that would be bullshit, because we rescued very rare items from rusting and rotting away and now it's on display for everyone to enjoy.

I probably expressed myself wrong, ethics are needed (I'm not tagging locations don't worry) but ethics too strict are bad. I'm talking about the 'I never touch anything in a location and you shouldn't either!' people. I think we should judge a situation with common sense in stead of living by some black and white white rules. We all hate it when people tag ugly shit in our beloved buildings, but on the other hand there are great artist (look up: Pete-One) who paint beautiful works of art in abandoned buildings. I'm glad to see that many people on this forum share this vision though.

Posted by Darendor would you decide to yourself, 'Where are the ethics of the owner of this fine automobile, to let it just sit here rotting away?'

I have no interest in cars, but if I had, and I saw a beautiful car neglected and rusting away in a collapsing shed, of course I would. But you're giving an extreme example, when I see your car parked for three weeks I don't think "hey this car is probably abandoned by it's owner so I'll take it". When I see a car in a shed that has been abandoned for 70 years and the owner either doesn't live anymore or clearly doesn't give a shit about it, it's a different story.

A few years ago an oldtimer treasure was found under a castle. It was a hot location in urbex world. Until a few weeks later when the cars were removed and sold in an auction to enthusiasts who restore and cherish these cars. I don't know the legalities of it but I'd say bless them for rescuing valuable things, even though the urbex location was gone.

Posted by Darendor It's a "damn Coke bottle" to you, but to an avid Coca-Cola memorabilia collector, it's prize gold. I actually know someone who is into collecting all things Coca-Cola, hence my example. I think we could all - or at least mostly - agree that there is no hard and fast code of ethics here. Sure, most of us more or less claim to explore for the sake of exploring and taking pictures... no stealing, no vandalizing, etc. But each person is different, and each person assigns different personal values to different objects (and scenarios, for that matter). The Coke bottle in the above example. Sure, lots of people might go "pfft whatever". But let's turn that on its head for a second. Suppose that Coke bottle was instead a 10 kilogram bar of solid gold. Suddenly, your values are in the spotlight. Do you take it? If you don't, someone else might. That gold bar could be worth tens of thousands of dollars after all. It's different for each explore(r), I would say.

Sure, we can expect to have as many different opinions as there are members on this site, and most of us probably get along and explore with people whose rules clash with our own.

And I admit, Coke and Pepsi both taste way better out of a glass bottle.

I may or may not own a 112 foot tall smoke stack from a recently demo'd site near me....

Everyone has good points. I read one, and think ya that makes sense. then read another and, oh that makes sense. If its being demolished, someone still owns it. Ethically I feel it would be wrong to steal something from a site. On the other hand, its probably obvious the person doesn't care to salvage historical documents and items. If they did, you'd figure they would have had them removed already. Maybe? If you feel that strongly that its your duty to save them, I am no one to say differently. But maybe think, who else will enjoy what you've taken? Will the items sit in a box in your garage?

Perhaps, if we see sites being demolished, if we want to be truly ethical in all manner, ask the owner if they are trying to preserve the place. If they say no, ask if you can take some things. Or ask if they would donate items to local historians.

I'm not telling anyone what to do by any means. Just trying to offer up an all inclusive ethical alternative. I don't want to be a party pooper.

T

I used to legit not take anything from above ground (except that one time I found a legit walk-in vault full of forty year-old porn) but then I fell in with a bad crowd.

Nowadays I'll collect a few bits and bobs, mostly only wall signage. Stuff that has no value, but that makes me smile when I put it on the wall in my office at home.

I've taken a few keys and knick-knacks from here and there, if they're interesting enough. Gun Cabinet keys, the head of a golf club from a factory that used to make them, or employee ids left onsite somewhere, that kind of thing.

If I found gold bouillon, you're goddamn right I'd take it.

Underground all bets are off. I will plunder the ever-loving shit out of drain treasure - mostly old coins, keys, or rings.

I have a few stones/bricks from demo'd structures.

I think this is relevant to the discussion: http://petapixel.c...ned-japanese-home/

executive summary: an explorer/photographer found 100-year-old glass plate photographs in the closet of an abandoned japanese home & took them.

it lends weight to the historical preservation argument. it doesn't sound like the place was about to be demoed, but if they hadn't taken the photographs they might be lost forever. not necessarily a bad thing, but it's cool that someone did take them & preserve/share them online.

Maybe it's just because I'm from the Northeast, but most explorers I know will take anything that's not nailed down.

If I shoots I loots.

Don't break it, TAKE IT!

That said, aside from the one aforementioned trip (to a place which was gutted and sold to an office-park developer) where I took various kitchen stuff, plates and saucers and the like which were industrial white and made in China, I never take anything I can't fit in my pocket. It's been at least a decade since I've taken pretty-much anything. The last item I remember leaving with was a small aluminum laundry-bag tag with the name of the hospital on it. I have a bin of trinkets that I've completely forgotten the origins of the contents that lie within and I'm probably gonna toss the whole lot after some last-minute recollection research.

Posted by Radical_Ed Don't break it, TAKE IT! That said, aside from the one aforementioned trip (to a place which was gutted and sold to an office-park developer) where I took various kitchen stuff, plates and saucers and the like which were industrial white and made in China, I never take anything I can't fit in my pocket. It's been at least a decade since I've taken pretty-much anything. The last item I remember leaving with was a small aluminum laundry-bag tag with the name of the hospital on it. I have a bin of trinkets that I've completely forgotten the origins of the contents that lie within and I'm probably gonna toss the whole lot after some last-minute recollection research.

Or you could pass it on to someone you know.. Just sayin

Do you really need extended catheters and plastic piss-cups still wrapped, circa late 1980's? How about a date stamp from 1977? Lots of crap like that with no history behind them as they were pilfered whilst in a haze and promptly forgotten about. I gave all the kitchen crap to the Salvation Army when I woke up the next day and realized what I had done. The whole lot was worthless. I'm keeping anything I remember!

Posted by Radical_Ed Do you really need extended catheters and plastic piss-cups still wrapped, circa late 1980's? How about a date stamp from 1977? Lots of crap like that with no history behind them as they were pilfered whilst in a haze and promptly forgotten about. I gave all the kitchen crap to the Salvation Army when I woke up the next day and realized what I had done. The whole lot was worthless. I'm keeping anything I remember!

Well 1977 was a good year lol ;)

I think the general context and intent are getting lost here.

Technically the law says sampling a grape is a crime just as going into the store with intent of shoplifting and making it out with a cart full of stuff.

A well intended high school kid poaching from recycling bins in his neighborhood unaware that he's doing anything wrong is quite different from chronic thieves who drive around and cherry pick cream of the crop from bins before trash trucks show up. They're consciously aware that they're snatching money out of someone else's pocket into their own.

Personally speaking I rarely ever take things from the places I explore. When I do take things, they usually are small with little if any value other than historical value. I used to work for a museum and volunteered with the county historical society, so some things from my explorations have found there way into their collections for preservation.

One thing I will always pick up if I see it is old books and paperwork. Blueprints, pay stubs, business ledgers, books, the like. Usually I donate these to the local historical society, but every once in a while I'll keep a them for my own personal historical collection. The last thing like this I picked up was a book of songs from the mid 1930's that I found while exploring a building set to be demo'ed within the week.

Speaking of ethics and taking of "souvenirs", a recent news story about a family's tragedy that shocked and pissed me off. This owner was more calm than I would have been. Regardless of how abandoned people think it is, it's still someone's home.

http://www.ktvb.co...ndalized/279984784

A lot of people have been talking about taking little things as memorabilia, after a few months down the line, how much value do they have to you? If you have a small keepsakes shoebox for urban exploring, then I take it back, but if it ends up under a couch, it might as well be trash.

I have a hard time figuring out where I stand on this issue...
In some cases I can condone it -- like when I found a beautiful crystal vase in an abandoned house up for demolition for a highway expansion. But I left it because I didn't think it was "up for grabs". But then a week later someone else's photos showed the same vase in a dozen broken pieces on the floor... People are gonna vandalize and wreck shit, no matter how solid YOUR ethics are.

The only definitive line I've managed to draw is when people steal stuff from abandonments and turn around to sell them on Ebay, Kijiji, Craigslist, Etc. That's just not cool at all. If you're taking something from an abandoned location simply to profit from it you're a shitty person, and that's my wholehearted belief.

I have no clue who stole all the hospital keys though... But I know of a few people who have stolen wheelchairs, morgue drawers, medical restraints, old school glass needles, other medical implements from old hospitals and then turned around to sell them on facebook or instagram. If you do this, you suck. You suck even more when you charge exorbitant amounts because it's a "rare" item, or an 'antique'.