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UER Forum > UE Main > Asbestos!! Sounds fun! (Viewed 6757 times)
Lost Photographer 


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Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< on 12/22/2015 10:31 AM >
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I was thinking about posting something yesterday related to this topic and then I came across this article and figured I might as well share it.

Asbestos.com posted yesterday: "Asbestos is No. 1 Danger for Urban Explorers"

http://www.asbesto...e-urban-explorers/


So I am wondering how many people actually take precautions before entering asbestos filled structures?




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Rinzler 


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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 1 on 12/22/2015 2:21 PM >
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A lot of us don't.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 2 on 12/22/2015 2:37 PM >
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Posted by Rinzler
A lot of us don't.


That is what I figured. I keep saying I'll stop at Lowes and get a respiratory but every time I'm there I never do.. Guess it probably won't cross my mind until I have mesothelioma when I'm 80.




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Collaro 


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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 3 on 12/22/2015 3:08 PM >
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well NOW i have a respirator but for me I've never run into any.

so long as you don't touch things, kick doors open, or anything like that you generally won't upset enough asbestos to be a problem. A friend of mine has worked with it before, and he's pretty knowledgeable about things. Basically he's the type to go around warning labels, knows compositions of things and possible alternate uses, etc.

Well long story short, he's done his reading and turns out asbestos isn't really a big danger as many people make it out to be, an hour in an asbestos filled building where you don't intentionally try and kick up as much as possible, yeah that's going to leave you perfectly healthy. The reason for the worry is people who WORKED with asbestos, meaning cutting insulation, applying pipes, essentially directly aggravating the product with friction of sliding it over the pipes, being cut, laid into walls, etc.

Same reason why most people don't have respirators. Mold is a bigger problem however, as fungus can easily grow in your lungs.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 4 on 12/22/2015 6:56 PM >
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There is so much misinformation and fear-mongering around when it comes to asbestos.

White asbestos, the most common type, can be found in all manner of things in buildings from pipe cladding, to floor tiles, roofing sheets, ceiling tiles etc. and is perfectly safe if left undisturbed. You pretty much have to eat a chunk of white asbestos to get any ill effects from a short-term exposure to it if it's not broken up and left as it is designed to be left. If the location is damp, that also keeps the fibres trapped at ground level if there has been any breakage.

Blue and brown asbestos is much rarer and very dangerous in comparison to white. Recently a group of explorers found this out to their cost at Battersea Power Station over here in London after getting busted and having armed police and hazmat officers surround them and then a full strip-down decontamination procedure. Battersea is currently being redeveloped and the main thing going on is the removal of all the blue asbestos in the paint lining most of the walls and they were seriously concerned that the explorers had been contaminated by it.

For short term exposure, the things you do need to be worried about are bird guano and black mould because they really can cause serious health issues pretty fast.



[last edit 12/22/2015 6:57 PM by mookster - edited 1 times]

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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 5 on 12/22/2015 7:37 PM >
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Posted by mookster
There is so much misinformation and fear-mongering around when it comes to asbestos.

White asbestos, the most common type, can be found in all manner of things in buildings from pipe cladding, to floor tiles, roofing sheets, ceiling tiles etc. and is perfectly safe if left undisturbed. You pretty much have to eat a chunk of white asbestos to get any ill effects from a short-term exposure to it if it's not broken up and left as it is designed to be left. If the location is damp, that also keeps the fibres trapped at ground level if there has been any breakage.

Blue and brown asbestos is much rarer and very dangerous in comparison to white. Recently a group of explorers found this out to their cost at Battersea Power Station over here in London after getting busted and having armed police and hazmat officers surround them and then a full strip-down decontamination procedure. Battersea is currently being redeveloped and the main thing going on is the removal of all the blue asbestos in the paint lining most of the walls and they were seriously concerned that the explorers had been contaminated by it.

For short term exposure, the things you do need to be worried about are bird guano and black mould because they really can cause serious health issues pretty fast.


Bump. Add to that, when vermiculite is used for insulation it may contain the more dangerous brown asbestos, worse when vermiculite is used for insulation it's usually not sealed. More of long term exposure issue unless you kick up the dust; don't.

Falls are the greatest hazard explorers face.
I put train and car accidents as next. We have lost explorers here from all three, and none to asbestos.

As for asbestos simply wearing a good fitting respirator with the correct cartridges is not enough in a heavily contaminated site with airborne particles. Your clothes and gear will be contaminated as well. Avoid these places if you're really worried about it. Don't smoke; smoking greatly increases the risk of previous exposures. Most everyone has had some exposure, but most will never suffer any illness because of it.





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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 6 on 12/22/2015 10:48 PM >
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The amount of time a lot of us are around asbestos isn't really that risky. Some more than others, of course, but myself? No. I'm sure i inhale some amount but not nearly enough to do any longterm damage.
Asbestos really starts doing damage when you're actually working with/around it, inhaling it constantly. If i were a redeveloper of old buildings or something of the sort, yes, i'd wear a respirator.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 7 on 12/22/2015 11:29 PM >
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Posted by relik
The amount of time a lot of us are around asbestos isn't really that risky. Some more than others, of course, but myself? No. I'm sure i inhale some amount but not nearly enough to do any longterm damage.
Asbestos really starts doing damage when you're actually working with/around it, inhaling it constantly. If i were a redeveloper of old buildings or something of the sort, yes, i'd wear a respirator.


Depends on the individual. One heavy dose can do you in eventually. If it's dry, windy and airborne avoid that site. As mookster pointed out the nasty varieties are not to be toyed with. Since it's hard to positively ID what type you're dealing with, treat it all the same... with respect for the potential mayhem it can cause.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 8 on 12/23/2015 2:35 AM >
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Posted by blackhawk
Falls are the greatest hazard explorers face.[/i] I put train and car accidents as next. We have lost explorers here from all three, and none to asbestos.


Do tell! Did the car/train accidents occur while exploring, or just in the course of normal life?

Wasn't there someone who posted an asbestos topic about a year ago, who actually ended up getting mesothelioma? I will try to find the thread, but it was a cautionary tale about the very delayed effects of exposure, and how you won't know if you've inhaled too much until your lungs have got cancer in them. And there's not really much to do about it once you have it. I agree that most explorers' exposure isn't on a level of immediate concern like the Battersea situation above, but I don't think it takes a huge or long-term exposure for a few particles to stick in your lungs and start mutating your DNA. The chances are for most of us that this won't happen, but I'm not a gambler.

I just looked to see how asbestos actually causes cancer, and it's actually sort of interesting--it's not that the fibers themselves are carcinogenic, they merely start an inflammatory chain reaction from our own bodies that releases stuff which can mutate our DNA and promote tumor growth. Why does our body even have "mutagens and factors that promote tumor growth"?

http://www.science...6/100629094153.htm




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 9 on 12/23/2015 3:05 AM >
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Do tell! Did the car/train accidents occur while exploring, or just in the course of normal life?

Wasn't there someone who posted an asbestos topic about a year ago, who actually ended up getting mesothelioma? I will try to find the thread, but it was a cautionary tale about the very delayed effects of exposure, and how you won't know if you've inhaled too much until your lungs have got cancer in them. And there's not really much to do about it once you have it. I agree that most explorers' exposure isn't on a level of immediate concern like the Battersea situation above, but I don't think it takes a huge or long-term exposure for a few particles to stick in your lungs and start mutating your DNA. The chances are for most of us that this won't happen, but I'm not a gambler.

I just looked to see how asbestos actually causes cancer, and it's actually sort of interesting--it's not that the fibers themselves are carcinogenic, they merely start an inflammatory chain reaction from our own bodies that releases stuff which can mutate our DNA and promote tumor growth. Why does our body even have "mutagens and factors that promote tumor growth"?

http://www.science...6/100629094153.htm


Most people don't fall into silos unless they work there... Falls will cripple and kill you on impact. No need to wait even 5 years like alone 30.

If you're serious about asbestos protection a respirator isn't enough. Duh. How many times have I said this? You really think wearing a respirator in a heavily contaminated site with no other protocols will keep you from inhaling literally hundreds or more of the fiber? You're kidding yourself; you'll get it in your cloths, cam gear, drag it into your car and finally home.

I blasted in Chester at Sunoco over 30 years ago. I can verify that asbestos has literally blown down the street like snow there. At Pennhurst they illegally hauled off tons of asbestos contaminated trash to none hazmat landfills. There are few people who haven't had some exposure because it's very prevalent even today in minute amounts.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 10 on 12/23/2015 3:38 AM >
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I read up on this subject a while ago and found this:


Full post, as well as sources, can be found here

Asbestos risk for exploring is fairly low, depending on location however it's advisable to wear a respirator for the more acute risks that can be posed by moulds and dusts.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 11 on 12/23/2015 4:21 PM >
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Considering I have asthma and already damaged lungs from whooping cough, my concerns of asbestos should probably be near the top of my list. Naturally, it's not.




thanks for giving it a try
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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 12 on 12/23/2015 8:34 PM >
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Posted by nyctophilia
Considering I have asthma and already damaged lungs from whooping cough, my concerns of asbestos should probably be near the top of my list. Naturally, it's not.


Using a respirator with the proper cartridges will prove to be restrictive on air flow which can trigger an asthma attack. One reason prudent employers carefully screen workers before fitting and issuing respirators to them.
Few here know or consider the extra amount of energy that is used when wearing a passive respirator. They provide only part of the protocols needed to be effective at protecting you from airborne threats.

That said molds and dust may pose a bigger hazard for you. Be careful anywhere large amounts of bird droppings are present especially pigeons. They carry a nasty airborne fungal disease. Been there and nailed proper. It's not recommended for anyone; it can land a healthy person in the hospital. I was quite sick for over a month with a fever and swollen lymph nodes.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 13 on 12/23/2015 9:17 PM >
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Using a respirator with the proper cartridges will prove to be restrictive on air flow which can trigger an asthma attack. One reason prudent employers carefully screen workers before fitting and issuing respirators to them.
Few here know or consider the extra amount of energy that is used when wearing a passive respirator. They provide only part of the protocols needed to be effective at protecting you from airborne threats.

That said molds and dust may pose a bigger hazard for you. Be careful anywhere large amounts of bird droppings are present especially pigeons. They carry a nasty airborne fungal disease. Been there and nailed proper. It's not recommended for anyone; it can land a healthy person in the hospital. I was quite sick for over a month with a fever and swollen lymph nodes.


This reminds me of a grain elevator in Buffalo with a layer of pigeon poo at the bottom that is inches deep. The smell was incredible and strong enough to make you wonder if you should leave.

This is the first time I've seen someone say they caught "pigeon lung". Is that what they diagnosed you with?




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 14 on 12/23/2015 10:16 PM >
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This reminds me of a grain elevator in Buffalo with a layer of pigeon poo at the bottom that is inches deep. The smell was incredible and strong enough to make you wonder if you should leave.

This is the first time I've seen someone say they caught "pigeon lung". Is that what they diagnosed you with?


I was working on the super structure of the Trenton bridge cleaning out 4-6 inches of pigeon shit from the box girders to blast and paint them. About 10 days later it started. My doctor was the best; went to him 2 times. Each time he examined me carefully. At the 3.5 week mark he gave it another week before having me admitted. He pretty was pretty sure it was fungal in nature due to the duration and symptoms. I fortunately turned around at the 4 week mark with no lasting damage.

I'm glad I didn't learn what exactly it was; no insurance. No doubt in my mind it could have turn life threatening if I hadn't been in good shape. Fever, malaise, chest cough, swollen lymph nodes in my neck, armpits and chest. Every bit as bad as mono or Lyme disease. After 3 weeks it was getting creepy.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 15 on 12/23/2015 10:55 PM >
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I was working on the super structure of the Trenton bridge cleaning out 4-6 inches of pigeon shit from the box girders to blast and paint them. About 10 days later it started. My doctor was the best; went to him 2 times. Each time he examined me carefully. At the 3.5 week mark he gave it another week before having me admitted. He pretty was pretty sure it was fungal in nature due to the duration and symptoms. I fortunately turned around at the 4 week mark with no lasting damage.

I'm glad I didn't learn what exactly it was; no insurance. No doubt in my mind it could have turn life threatening if I hadn't been in good shape. Fever, malaise, chest cough, swollen lymph nodes in my neck, armpits and chest. Every bit as bad as mono or Lyme disease. After 3 weeks it was getting creepy.



That's messed up. Thanks for sharing this. There are so many diseases lurking in various kinds of fecal matter. I believe pigeon and mouse droppings carry the worst potential, which is rather unfortunate since they are the most common. I come into contact with it every day... gotta watch out for those dusty, dry, and enclosed spaces, for sure!



[last edit 12/23/2015 10:57 PM by General Zod - edited 1 times]

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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 16 on 12/23/2015 11:36 PM >
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That's messed up. Thanks for sharing this. There are so many diseases lurking in various kinds of fecal matter. I believe pigeon and mouse droppings carry the worst potential, which is rather unfortunate since they are the most common. I come into contact with it every day... gotta watch out for those dusty, dry, and enclosed spaces, for sure!


Always wear at least a dust mask when dealing with dried rodent urine and droppings; hantavirus. Minimum 30% mortality with proper treatment in healthy young people. Wash hands well before eating or touching face.
Always allow heavily infested sealed areas to air out before entering. This is a truly horror tale scary disease. While cases are rare, it demands respect. I meet one field scientist who knew two people who had died from it. One was doing field work in SC with mice nests. He was 26 yo.

Lol, pigeons are just rats with wings...




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 17 on 12/24/2015 12:57 AM >
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Always wear at least a dust mask when dealing with dried rodent urine and droppings; hantavirus. Minimum 30% mortality with proper treatment in healthy young people. Wash hands well before eating or touching face.
Always allow heavily infested sealed areas to air out before entering. This is a truly horror tale scary disease. While cases are rare, it demands respect. I meet one field scientist who knew two people who had died from it. One was doing field work in SC with mice nests. He was 26 yo.

Lol, pigeons are just rats with wings...


These are pro tips, man. I heard of a local man who was sweeping out his garage, and it had lots of mouse droppings in it, but apparently he didn't wet anything down or open up the garage door first. Since the garage was dry and dusty, he kicked up a cloud with the mouse droppings in it, inhaled it, and contracted a lung disease. He died.



[last edit 12/24/2015 1:26 AM by General Zod - edited 2 times]

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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 18 on 12/24/2015 1:44 AM >
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Posted by General Zod


These are pro tips, man. I heard of a local man who was sweeping out his garage, and it had lots of mouse droppings in it, but apparently he didn't wet it down or open up the garage door first. Since the garage was dry and dusty, he kicked up a cloud with the mouse droppings in it, inhaled it, and contracted a lung disease. He died.


While inhalation is the primary vector of transmission of hantavirus, it can be contracted from infected rodent bites, cuts in the skin, and by contact with mucous membranes ie mouth, nose and eyes. Wetting it down with a bleach solution might have saved his life or even wearing a simple dust mask. The amount of virus one is exposed to does have a direct effect on the outcome. You can tolerate a certain minute exposure without illness. Some humans do have antibodies to it even though they never contracted the acute disease.

There are two variants of hantavirus, the worst being HPS which is a pneumonia caused by it that results in severe edema of the lungs. Victims literally drown in their own bodily fluids. Early treatment in an advanced ICU is the victims best hope for survival. Even than that's no guarantee of survival.

Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease transmitted by rodents including in the US. Although treatable with antibiotics, it can be fatal if not treated promptly. I recommend anyone who has exposure to rodent infested areas on a regular basis read up on both these diseases to fully understand how to best avoid exposure.
One of the reasons I love rattlesnakes and never kill them; their main food source are rodents.

Unlike asbestos, falls, fungal/bacterial/virus infections can have immediate and severe life altering consequences to the victim.




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Re: Asbestos!! Sounds fun!
< Reply # 19 on 12/25/2015 9:19 PM >
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