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UER Forum > UE Main > "on sexism in urbex" (Viewed 8687 times)
telefontubbie 


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"No Trespassing" - It's an invitation!

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"on sexism in urbex"
< on 7/16/2014 10:22 PM >
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Stumbled upon this blog post about sexism in urbex - how the media reflects male and female explorers.

the blog :

http://valeriamsou...n-sexism-in-urbex/


HA!!! i bet many female explorers can relate to this.
Like, how annoying it is when fellow explorers on forums / photography sites are mistaken you as a male if you're not having a nickname that surely points that you're a female. Being the only female explorer among other guys just in case to make them look less "criminal".
Well, i can only partly agree on the "epic rooftopping photo" comparison. I've seen dozens of photos where female explorers looks like "hey, i'm having the bestest moment of the day and maybe in lifetime, as well" instead of posing like a model.

I just remembered an old discussion on UER about artist Miru Kim. That everybody was like "ooooh, she's naked" and "she's making money out of UE themed pics" and only some paid attention to the fact she was really enjoying exploring.





[last edit 7/16/2014 10:24 PM by telefontubbie - edited 1 times]

G to the Race 


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Hi!

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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 1 on 7/17/2014 12:12 AM >
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Posted by telefontubbie
Stumbled upon this blog post about sexism in urbex - how the media reflects male and female explorers.

the blog :

http://valeriamsou...n-sexism-in-urbex/


HA!!! i bet many female explorers can relate to this.
Like, how annoying it is when fellow explorers on forums / photography sites are mistaken you as a male if you're not having a nickname that surely points that you're a female. Being the only female explorer among other guys just in case to make them look less "criminal".
Well, i can only partly agree on the "epic rooftopping photo" comparison. I've seen dozens of photos where female explorers looks like "hey, i'm having the bestest moment of the day and maybe in lifetime, as well" instead of posing like a model.

I just remembered an old discussion on UER about artist Miru Kim. That everybody was like "ooooh, she's naked" and "she's making money out of UE themed pics" and only some paid attention to the fact she was really enjoying exploring.





I recall the Kim discussion and I think it centered more on her capitalizing on UE than on sexualizing her or sexism. But, I agree w/the blogger kind of, UE is like video gaming, but you can't really blame dudes that are involved--there aren't a whole lot of women openly doing this. At least not enough to outweigh us basement dwellers that have never had a date in our lives. Kidding. About the basement dweller part. I've been dismayed to see explorers leave this community due to stalkerism, but when you're the only girl at the dance...Not to excuse the stalkers, sexists, or harassers, rather to understand the particular mindset from which they operate. About the woman in the video: she'll all BOOBS, what are straight dudes gonna do? I know they should focus on her mad skillz but sometimes biology takes over the brain and bad things are voiced. I hope she keeps splorin like a mad woman but maybe wear some less boobalicious clothing? Don't crucify me for blaming the victim, I'm not, but the victim should know that when you enter a male dominated field with a video like that, things will be said.




You betcha
Skye_Ann 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 2 on 7/17/2014 12:53 AM >
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Amen to this article.

It's blatantly obvious how not even just in the news, but on the forums themselves that the hobby is very sexist. Any female who's been here a while (I assume) can relate. As a female we seem to have to "prove ourselves" more than the guys do. As females we're viewed as "fragile" and "cowardly" which makes the guys less willing to explore with us.

Now, I'll say that not ALL the guys are like this. I know there are several very kind men in this hobby that explore with females and view them as equal in the field of urban exploring. But I -personally- have been discriminated against simply because I'm a female.

The naked thing is a whole other topic. From what I've seen, if a guy shows his junk in a photo on here he's "brave" and "daring". But if a girl does it, she's a "whore" or a "slut". It's a double standard and it's stupid. If someone is confident enough with their body to be naked in front of a camera in a (classy) way, then that person shouldn't face judgement. It's not hurting anyone, and if you don't want to see it - just keep scrolling.

Fck this whole thing just gets me heated.




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DawnPatrol 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 3 on 7/17/2014 1:05 AM >
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Honestly, unless someone has a name that gives away their gender, or their profile says their gender, I typically assume everyone on the internet is male. I think that's how most people function. Typically, I don't use feminine handles and I prefer people to think I'm a guy. It levels the playing field and people don't really NEED to know better. This site is a little different because I've actually posted photos of myself here and met some people which I haven't done on any other site I'm a member of.

As far as in person interactions, I've explored with nearly equal amounts of men and women. I can't say I've ever felt any sexist vibes among the men I have explored with. Honestly, I think both sexes have their uses and it's good to explore with both. Men tend to add a bit of intimidation to the group which is nice in more dangerous areas and like the article stated, women tend to help when you run into authorities. I think exploring with a balanced group is beneficial to both sexes. I wouldn't say either sex is really being taken advantage of in that situation. A group of all women looks like an easy target and a group of all men looks like they're up to no good.




[last edit 7/17/2014 1:06 AM by DawnPatrol - edited 1 times]

Steed 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 4 on 7/17/2014 2:51 AM >
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Posted by Skye_Ann

The naked thing is a whole other topic. From what I've seen, if a guy shows his junk in a photo on here he's "brave" and "daring". But if a girl does it, she's a "whore" or a "slut". It's a double standard and it's stupid. If someone is confident enough with their body to be naked in front of a camera in a (classy) way, then that person shouldn't face judgement. It's not hurting anyone, and if you don't want to see it - just keep scrolling.



I'm not too sure about that. To use the Kim Miru case already mentioned, she certainly found legitimacy in her nude works and has made tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars selling her work over the years. Meanwhile, a guy getting naked won't be able to make too much money for that long.

I think it is usually wrong to criticise someone like Miru for capitalising on UE. Sure, being naked, female, and the daughter of a famous philosopher got her a few advantages others didn't receive, that's all incidental to the years of work she's put in. She's since mostly moved on from UE, having more recently focused on high-density farming followed by desert nomadic life.




AdventureDan 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 5 on 7/17/2014 3:26 AM >
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Posted by DawnPatrol

Honestly, I think both sexes have their uses and it's good to explore with both. Men tend to add a bit of intimidation to the group which is nice in more dangerous areas and like the article stated, women tend to help when you run into authorities. I think exploring with a balanced group is beneficial to both sexes. I wouldn't say either sex is really being taken advantage of in that situation. A group of all women looks like an easy target and a group of all men looks like they're up to no good.




I totally agree with this. When my girlfriend started exploring with me, she was new to it and just learning the ropes. I took her out on a couple explores and she loved it and we started exploring everything together. The first time we ran into trouble with cops, she softened the situation so much. Eventually we learned that acting as a couple we could get almost anywhere in plain view because it was a LOT less suspicious than me hanging around an abandoned alcove alone on the street. After she moved to AZ she didn't feel comfortable going into abandoned buildings in the city for fear of squatters. But now she is in the process of getting into a titan 2 missle silo all by herself. And I'm super jelly needless to say...




AAAAAAAAAAAADVENTURE TIME!!!!
Mike Dijital 

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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 6 on 7/17/2014 3:45 AM >
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I personally think there isnt sexism as much as there is a lack of naked chicks making lunch for their boyfriends in abandoned buildings!





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Flashyfashionfraud 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 7 on 7/17/2014 3:52 AM >
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Well, I feel like in any aspect we can scream "sexism" based on how we treat each other when it comes to gender. That goes for both guys and girls, not just one against the other. I have realized that most Urbexplorers are male, not because females can't/won't be into the hobby; but because for the most part girls are less likely to take these risks and don't care about the hobby in general. Not putting girls in a box, it's just kinda how the female gender has been sadly brought up.

I know when I first got into the hobby, most of my female friends thought it was interesting but the idea of trespassing freaked them out. I think it was the aspect of getting caught over getting dirty that kept them from joining me. My neighbor got really freaked out over all the "no trespassing" signs on the property, but once we got exploring she chilled out but doesn't join often.

I really don't like putting guys into a box where it's all about boobs and the like. If someone makes an immature comment about that, whether it be guy or girl, then just ignore them. I've been taken very seriously as an explorer, but I also have gotten crap for not being as strong or fast. You can whine about it or you can let your skills do the talking. I do agree with DawnPatrol that it is better to go in a mixed group just because it does look less suspicious and is beneficial for everyone. If you can't do that, then it's whatever. Again, girls are just as capable as the guys out there in the hobby and the guys are no lesser than girls.

Like DawnPatrol said, gender shouldn't matter. If you make it known that you're a girl or a guy, it's whatever. No one really needs to know unless you want someone to know, that's the beauty of being anonymous on the internet and on a site with a hobby like this.

Everyone's going to be criticized, you can't really win when it comes to opinions. People are either going to approve of what you do or not; but in the end it's about what you love to do. Haters gonna hate, man.




“Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here! This is the War Room!" — Dr. Strangelove
mhester 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 8 on 7/17/2014 4:46 AM >
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I don't know I have one chick explore with on a regular basis and she's pretty hardcore. She will climb through muck in mud and do all that other fun stuff. although like she will say herself sometimes she'll pull the chick card at a sketchy place and hand me the mag light and tell me to take the lead. I always bust her balls about it afterwards lol.




Long time Urban explorer, who wants to push my love for the abandoned world into the art community.
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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 9 on 7/17/2014 8:27 AM >
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I'm just so tired of this bullshit about how sexist everything is.

Ranger the fuck up everybody.




mhester 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 10 on 7/17/2014 8:51 AM >
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Posted by Skye_Ann
Amen to this article.

It's blatantly obvious how not even just in the news, but on the forums themselves that the hobby is very sexist. Any female who's been here a while (I assume) can relate. As a female we seem to have to "prove ourselves" more than the guys do. As females we're viewed as "fragile" and "cowardly" which makes the guys less willing to explore with us.

Now, I'll say that not ALL the guys are like this. I know there are several very kind men in this hobby that explore with females and view them as equal in the field of urban exploring. But I -personally- have been discriminated against simply because I'm a female.

The naked thing is a whole other topic. From what I've seen, if a guy shows his junk in a photo on here he's "brave" and "daring". But if a girl does it, she's a "whore" or a "slut". It's a double standard and it's stupid. If someone is confident enough with their body to be naked in front of a camera in a (classy) way, then that person shouldn't face judgement. It's not hurting anyone, and if you don't want to see it - just keep scrolling.

Fck this whole thing just gets me heated.

Agreed; although im sure no one wants to see my fat ass naked lol.




Long time Urban explorer, who wants to push my love for the abandoned world into the art community.
telefontubbie 


Location: Latvia, Riga
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"No Trespassing" - It's an invitation!

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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 11 on 7/17/2014 9:31 AM >
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Posted by G to the RaceAbout the woman in the video: she'll all BOOBS, what are straight dudes gonna do?


The video thing, it was not about the outlooks of the girl, but how she was described comparing to the "Russian guys with ordinary clothing". Not a single line about what she does for a living. Like she's nothing but her tits.

Posted by DawnPatrolI think exploring with a balanced group is beneficial to both sexes.


Yup!

Posted by FlashyfashionfraudI have realized that most Urbexplorers are male, not because females can't/won't be into the hobby; but because for the most part girls are less likely to take these risks and don't care about the hobby in general.


Interesting thing is, i haven't ever saw threads about urban exploring in female magazine sections "free time" (something like a hobby section)/ "travels". Never. BUT there have been at least 3 articles about urban exploring on local male magazines. And the described hobbies on female magazines are mostly DIY shit, dancing salsa, exploring french wine and son on. Nothing related with taking risks...


- - -
The only reason why i brought up this thread was the surprise it's not the only one. This is even academic(?) insight. Oh well.

http://www.scribd....culinist-Geography







[last edit 7/17/2014 9:33 AM by telefontubbie - edited 1 times]

mhester 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 12 on 7/17/2014 10:30 AM >
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Posted by telefontubbie


The video thing, it was not about the outlooks of the girl, but how she was described comparing to the "Russian guys with ordinary clothing". Not a single line about what she does for a living. Like she's nothing but her tits.



Yup!



Interesting thing is, i haven't ever saw threads about urban exploring in female magazine sections "free time" (something like a hobby section)/ "travels". Never. BUT there have been at least 3 articles about urban exploring on local male magazines. And the described hobbies on female magazines are mostly DIY shit, dancing salsa, exploring french wine and son on. Nothing related with taking risks...


- - -
The only reason why i brought up this thread was the surprise it's not the only one. This is even academic(?) insight. Oh well.

http://www.scribd....culinist-Geography






Not to sound like a dick but this is Russia we are talking about. They are hardly the forthright leaders when it comes to womens rigjts and recognition.




Long time Urban explorer, who wants to push my love for the abandoned world into the art community.
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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 13 on 7/17/2014 11:56 AM >
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Yeah Im pretty sure this so called urbrex thing is designed by white males to exclude women and minorities.

(or just treat them really poorly if they try to participate and get ahead)




AtticAddict 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 14 on 7/17/2014 4:54 PM >
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The blog makes excellent points, as do each of you:

You can whine about it or you can let your skills do the talking. I do agree with DawnPatrol that it is better to go in a mixed group just because it does look less suspicious and is beneficial for everyone. If you can't do that, then it's whatever. Again, girls are just as capable as the guys out there in the hobby and the guys are no lesser than girls.

Not to sound like a dick but this is Russia we are talking about. They are hardly the forthright leaders when it comes to womens rigjts and recognition.
BUT there have been at least 3 articles about urban exploring on local male magazines. And the described hobbies on female magazines are mostly DIY shit, dancing salsa, exploring french wine and son on. Nothing related with taking risks...
<<Which is why the journalists here are more to blame than the actual explorers.

Sexism exists in UE just as it does in many male-dominated hobbies and professions. I have not encountered it personally, but I have witnessed it here on this website and elsewhere about the web. And I’ve seen it go both ways. This is the internet, after all.

Here’s my question: Why the provocative explorer gear?

It’s intriguing that usually when women appear in urbex pictures, they are posing and exposing. I am perplexed by this since what I wear while exploring is purely utilitarian: aimed at coverage and protection against the elements. No way in hell I’m bothering with hair & makeup. And my mind is certainly too busy watching out for danger, scoping out the next cool shot and watching where I’m placing my feet to bother with voguing.




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CatAndTie 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 15 on 7/17/2014 5:05 PM >
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Posted by Skye_Ann

The naked thing is a whole other topic. From what I've seen, if a guy shows his junk in a photo on here he's "brave" and "daring". But if a girl does it, she's a "whore" or a "slut". It's a double standard and it's stupid. If someone is confident enough with their body to be naked in front of a camera in a (classy) way, then that person shouldn't face judgement. It's not hurting anyone, and if you don't want to see it - just keep scrolling.

Fck this whole thing just gets me heated.


I agree with Steed on this one... and maybe this is because it's a male dominated activity, but I see more positive "beautiful" reactions to females in abandonments, or bridges, etc. When a dude gets naked and poses it normally is more "comically" or "funny."

This is the same thing in movies as well... nude males are normally (not all the time) portrayed as comic relief when they show their asses, while females are seen as beautiful and wonderful curves, etc.

I think it might have been in a nude thread we had going on here that someone (might have been your friend Therrin) wondered why there were not more male models. And bringing it to a larger audience, as Steed said, nude male models just don't sell as much.




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shotgun mario 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 16 on 7/17/2014 7:50 PM >
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As a white middleclass male Im pretty confident I do the urbex because I hate women and want to keep them in the submissive role. Yep.

Seriously, there was some feminist womens studies major who wrote a ma/PhD (can't remember which) paper about urbex being a men's-only club DESIGNED (as if guys got together and planned this shit out) to keep women out, and she went as far as to blame climbing fences and running from security as male-dominated abilities, and why does exploring have to depend on such skills? Why do we "encourage" and "celebrate" the PENETRATION of buildings? Why are there photos of guys grabbing their nutscand other things the author can't do? And I'm pretty sure this confused girl probably shouted out "womyn power" or something equally ridiculous when she was done.


http://www.acade...ulinist_geography_


Suffice to say, a bunch of us (girls included) rebutted her claims (with lots of jokes and firsthand accounts) and brad Garrett rebutted here with a published paper in some journal.

http://www.scribd....55648208?width=360



[last edit 7/17/2014 8:29 PM by shotgun mario - edited 1 times]

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A Through Z Explorations 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 17 on 7/17/2014 10:01 PM >
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Posted by Soldat
I'm just so tired of this bullshit about how sexist everything is.

Ranger the fuck up everybody.


^ THAT!

Suffice it to say, the only equal judging I do when I know I'll be exploring with a female is their body physique:
Does she look fat and slow? Or slim and agile?

Which honestly, that's the first thing I look at in both sexes. I want to explore with someone that can either run in front of me, or next to me and
won't become a chew toy for the German Sheperd.
When I know it's a female I'll be urbexing with, I think to myself "Awesome, she's doing the sweet talking if we get caught by authorities." ha-ha.

Keep it up, ladies, don't let anyone intimidate you, especially someone with twice your size and strength. We can all stand to learn something from each other.




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Speed 


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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 18 on 7/17/2014 10:38 PM >
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Posted by Soldat
I'm just so tired of this bullshit about how sexist everything is.

Ranger the fuck up everybody.


Werd!

Don't know about the rest of the world but I can think of three hardcore explorers from the northeast and mid-atlantic that throw the whole sexist thing right out the window… Nan, Porcelain Doll and Hydrotherapy. (as well as a few others)

These beautiful ladies will run circles around most dudes. They are… without dispute, the real deal.

Personally, I don't see the whole sexist thing but I guess everyones mileage varies.




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Re: "on sexism in urbex"
< Reply # 19 on 7/17/2014 10:52 PM >
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I don't see sexism in the groups I encounter, myself. It's usually help the woman boost herself in the window, give the woman your spare flashlight if she forgets hers or her batteries die, open any and all doors for the woman, build a junk bridge over puddles in case the gal isn't wearing waterproof hikers, give her a pack of pocket Kleenex in case she has to go to the bathroom, open all beers before handing them out, inquire if the gal is hungry or thirsty, make sure she's not going first or last in the line of explorers and refrain from jokes about her ass, watch what you say and don't be disrespectful...
Come to think of it, they're usually treated like diamond-studded gold when encountered in my experiences.

CHIVALRY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sexism




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