Posted by kowalski Amazing how even when I'm giving someone unqualified encouragement, people still act butt-hurt defensive about the idea that there could be anything more to do with our access than threads of photos on a silly forum.

My butt is fine but I suspect yours is tender. Get back under the bridge.

BTW POP.....dope set!

This ship has already sailed... Literally.

Lol @ Trains, found that out last night! Thankfully, there was one left ;)

As someone who talks openly about my passion for abandoned infrastructure and has done several interviews with the media about draining and rooftopping, I'll agree with kowalski that not all press is bad press, and that not all exploits need to be kept under lock and key.

That being said, many of us work and have families and other hobbies that feed our intellectual appetite(s). Lots of us explore because it's just something we enjoy doing. Many of us were curious explorers long before we read about it on the internet or even owned cameras.

I can't help but applaud the efforts of well-spoken guys like Kowalski who take it upon themselves to periodically stand in as respectable public stewards for our otherwise nefarious hobby. I don't however believe that explorations must always be justified in the context of some profound social experimentation with deep meaning.

Most of the time I go out and "take pictures" because I'm curious about a given location and want to go do something interesting with my friends. Professional students can dissect the meaning of what we do till the cows come home, but more often than not it's simply because we're curious and want to see what's down that tunnel or what's behind that closed door. I truly appreciate when people like Jono or Kowalski or Micro or JermIX (and many others!) spend the time and energy to research the places they explore and write sincere and meaningful words on their adventures. It's important to have some context for what we do, and I always enjoy reading the history and social implications of an abandoned structure, but that shouldn't detract from those of us who simply enjoy taking photos and sharing them with like-minded people. It would be fantastic if POP has the time and wherewithal to take heed of Kowalski's suggestion and turn his words and photos into something palatable for digestion by the public, but I'll still respect him if he doesn't. It's all about time and priorities and respecting peoples right to approach this hobby at whatever angle keeps them passionate.

More of Lachlan's $0.02. Your wallets must be getting full :p

Here here to both kowalski and terapr0s comments. Agreed.

And props to you POP, I wish more of these people would take the time to tell a story. I find the I was here posts beyond boring.

Not everyone is a story teller like you, to each their own?

Posted by ZenCanadian ......to each their own?

But everyone with an opinion against it will certainly be sure to let you know how they feel!

Respectful dialogue and sharing of opinions can be healthy, if it were possible on this site without the backhand slaps and outright crew mentality BS this would be a better place to visit.

This discussion seems to boil down to the endless argument about name dropping and openly sharing location information. I personally feel that there’s a large difference between sharing an abandoned location and an active building/construction site/transportation/infrastructure/whatever. At active sites you’re interfering with people’s jobs, putting yourself (and inexperienced copycats) into potentially dangerous situations, possibly damaging equipment you’re not familiar with… it makes sense to use a tad bit more discretion than when you’re dealing with the average abandoned structure which no one really cares about.

If the intention is to document what you see and share your knowledge with the public, obtain proper permission and cover your bases and do a thorough job. If you simply want to share thrilling stories of adventure, proceed with caution. I’m having a difficult time trying to determine how you could turn OP’s story and photos into some presentation which engages the general public’s interest without drawing the ire of the shipping company or TPA in its current format.

It’s also worth noting that ports and other transportation/infrastructure sites can be subject to harsher penalties than the simple trespassing ticket “entrance fee” that many of us have received and laughed about. I’m not saying this as a scare tactic, just informing people who may not realize. Do you know what MARSEC means, for example? It would be worth learning about if you’re planning to frequent sites under such scrutiny.

I’m shocked that the OP didn’t get any hassle from the crew member he encountered. Something about that story doesn’t add up. A homeowner doesn’t spark up casual conversation after discovering an intruder in their house and home is exactly what a ship is to any crew member for months at a time. I’m thinking he was calmly telling you to leave and grabbing the phone to call someone regarding your presence. Just my (pessimistic) opinion on the encounter.

To the OP - Great photos. This is likely the Navigator’s last operating season so you’ve chosen a good vessel to explore.

MARSEC, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARSEC
Also, http://www.tc.gc.c...bulletin001-80.htm

Posted by TRAINS This discussion seems to boil down to the endless argument about name dropping and openly sharing location information.

Unfortunately the public awareness of the hobby has grown considerably since the time many of us began participating in it. In my opinion antiques seem to vanish quicker and graffiti appears sooner than in previous years.

As we've read about in over a dozen threads in the Ontario forum alone, the days of openly naming places are gone. Even posting an exterior photo is enough to allow some saavy people to learn the location of the property. Try as we might, despite any security-based trust system sometimes you let the wrong ones in.

For these reasons some of the pristine untouched properties in Ontario are purposely kept off of the forums.

There will always be conflict between those who wish to preserve the past versus those who wish to tell the story. If I tell the story it is only after the property is demolished or I may change the names so one cannot Google the details. It's not very fun to return to an untouched location to find spray painted dicks all over the walls and every pane of glass broken. Make no mistake, by telling the story you also tell the world - and in this world there are those who'd gladly haul away the contents or bring a few aerosol spray cans of paint. (There are, of course, well known properties that are named openly on half a dozen sites and indexed by Google. They are also heavily vandalized.)

Perhaps in the future, POP might also consider making future posts private (I'm not certain if a basic member can do this). Great photos by the way.

I've never been convinced enough to buy into the argument that UER is the main cause of trashed locations. There are always a few bad apples in the bunch but UER is not the (primary) source of smashed drywall, inverted pentagrams, and crude "SLAYER RULEZ" graffiti.

But I do think active sites deserve more respect since they are occupied with owners/tenants who likely care about their property and probably don't deserve a huge rush of unannounced visitors.



Also to clarify my previous post, I am not calling OP a liar, just how I would interpret the encounter if I was in his shoes.

I agree that UER (insert other UE sites here) is probably not to blame for the graffiti. I can't see anyone getting in the car to take a roadtrip to spray illegible trash on the walls. Most likely it's local kids.

Having read comments on social media websites such as "Nice record player, did you take it?", "I'd have taken that" or photos of items with the caption, "I found this in an abandoned house", there is no doubt in my mind that treasure hunters do frequent such sites and are more than willing to make the road trip.
(That was a very long run-on sentence)

Whoa. Nicely done!

This is awesome, and I'm proud of you for not posting any names or details that could potentially get this place in jeopardy.

My opinion is this; (Sorry for the wall of text)

This was an infiltration. An active location. And POP clearly states that. Nobody in their right mind is going to go there and spray paint shit, or try and steal things because it's an ACTIVE location. If there's some idiot who tries that and gets caught, then they deserve it.

I've explored "Active" locations and narrowly avoided security (lunch break luck). And I posted them here. Because this is a forum about sharing our explores and adventures. I didn't post details though, because I don't trust others to not go and get caught. Nor did I want to put anyone in that position.

As for abandoned buildings, I find that it all depends on the location. If a place has some personal items and valuables... Don't post the information on a public forum. Sharing it with some trusted individuals (I think we all know who is trustworthy and who isn't on this forum) is fine. Just don't go blab about it to everyone and their cat.

Some locations have nothing left to save, and aren't worth keeping private. If it's empty, or has nothing of value left.. I think it's a nice thing to share because it'll get newer members out there and give them a taste of exploring. There's also locations that are easily found via a google search... If the location you're trying so hard to protect is already easily accessible via a google search or something of the sort - you aren't doing it any sort of favors by hiding it.

I understand that some people don't like to openly share locations, and I'm one of them. But I think personal bias gets in the way every now and then. Elitism runs rampant in this forum (as it does in many others, not just UER.). The bottom line is, there are locations worth protecting and others that aren't. The demolition (or restoration in some cases) of an abandonment is inevitable. If the person asking is trustworthy, let them enjoy the location while it's still around...

TL;DR: If the location has nothing left of value, share it. If it has a little value, share it with trustworthy people. If it has a lot of value, share it with trustworthy people in private. Locations come and go, you aren't going to prevent it's future by hiding it (Within reason... Don't go telling everyone about an awesome location 'cause yea, people suck and it'll get trashed.) .

I love you all!