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UER Forum > US: Great Lakes > guy gets stuck under pillsbury. (Viewed 15305 times)
redox 


Location: Arkham, Mass
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Oi! You! Don't be a TOSSER!

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 40 on 9/5/2012 3:44 AM >
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What a nightmare for the Einstein clone....Should'a called Action Squad!




"The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination." -H.P. Lovecraft
DJ Craig 

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 41 on 9/18/2012 12:04 AM >
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Posted by Jakk_Handsome
I'll give him props for coming on here and letting people know who he is. Thus catching his guaranteed ration of shit for getting into any kind of 'public' situation.

Good job on getting your buddy out alive, good job on not getting prosecuted either. Next time, Bring Moar Stuff!


+1


Stop giving this guy shit. Yes, he made a series of mistakes. Some of them seem obvious to some of us, especially in hindsight. But these things happen. And when it comes to cold water, it's extremely easy to underestimate just how quickly it can get ugly.

As someone who has had experience with ropework in cold water, I can tell you, it's not something to take lightly. And I've been to this location and could see myself maybe just two or three years ago making pretty much all the same mistakes he did.

And yeah, props for coming and telling us the real story, since the press did such a pathetic job of it... If the way they made it sound was actually accurate, I would have been giving you (or at least your friend) a bunch of shit too...




"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
chonkyfire9 


Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 6 likes


Urban Exploration Vehicle

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 42 on 9/18/2012 4:27 AM >
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Posted by Jakk_Handsome
ration of shit


Jakk, you so crazy!




I own you, don't I?
Audacious 


Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 4 likes




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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 43 on 9/19/2012 4:11 AM >
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Posted by DJ Craig


+1


Stop giving this guy shit. Yes, he made a series of mistakes. Some of them seem obvious to some of us, especially in hindsight. But these things happen. A


+1

We've all done stupid shit. When exploring with my now ex-girlfriend for her first time in an abandoned mill, I forgot to tell her of a door that opened up into a 60-foot drop to a certain death. Had I not ran and grabbed her she probably would have fallen after excitedly opening the door to see what was ahead.

In hindsight I probably should have let gravity do the job for me, but that's an entirely different story...

Point being we all screw up, and at least these guys seem to have learned from it and arent making excuses. That's about all you can hope for, really.





Proud supporter of the pullout method
scatwomb 


Location: duluth
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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 44 on 9/19/2012 4:42 AM >
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All you fuckers need to know you're often one misstep or miscalculation from serious injury or death.

I applaud this dude for making the right decision to call for help.





Tenebrae 


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Life's short; eat dessert first.

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 45 on 9/19/2012 12:15 PM >
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1.


2.


Posted by sweetj
one misstep or miscalculation from serious injury or death.

I applaud this dude for making the right decision to call for help.




+1

And I haven't had the nerve to go in...



[last edit 9/19/2012 12:20 PM by Tenebrae - edited 1 times]

Audacious 


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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 46 on 9/19/2012 7:26 PM >
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That pot leaf was there forever lol..

See that bottom walkway between the two buildings? The one that eventually ended up looking like this?



I saw it hanging off the building one day, before being completely removed. Was it demolished, or did it just one day.. drop?




Proud supporter of the pullout method
Dalmaticus 


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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 47 on 9/19/2012 7:49 PM >
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Posted by sweetj
All you fuckers need to know you're often one misstep or miscalculation from serious injury or death.

I applaud this dude for making the right decision to call for help.




Or one post away from sounding like a candy ass.




All the treasure are belong to me. We got a slat, for that!
DJ Craig 

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 48 on 9/19/2012 8:10 PM >
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Posted by Dalmaticus
Or one post away from sounding like a candy ass.


Posted by Tali
i think the real problem was that you and your friend are a couple of little girls. come on, you didnt even try.


Shit like this is fucking disgusting and makes me honestly ashamed to be a part of this community. As someone with multiple close friends who have been badly hurt exploring, and who has been in these types of horrific situations multiple times, I can tell you that these situations aren't cut and dried, and it is extremely naive to treat them as such, and incredibly immature to bring in the macho bullshit and insults when you weren't there. If you've never been in the situation of facing a life-threatening emergency in an exploring situation then you have absolutely no clue what it's like, and believe me, you don't want to find out. Go take your macho bullshit somewhere else; we don't need it here.



[last edit 9/19/2012 8:28 PM by DJ Craig - edited 1 times]

"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
DJ Craig 

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 49 on 9/19/2012 8:19 PM >
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Posted by turtle
My wife made that climb so...


What, a WOMAN made that climb? Wow, it clearly must be REALLY easy then!


God I am no angry about this whole thread...




"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
Dalmaticus 


Location: MSP / Fargo
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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 50 on 9/19/2012 10:59 PM >
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Posted by DJ Craig
Shit like this is fucking disgusting and makes me honestly ashamed to be a part of this community. As someone with multiple close friends who have been badly hurt exploring, and who has been in these types of horrific situations multiple times, I can tell you that these situations aren't cut and dried, and it is extremely naive to treat them as such, and incredibly immature to bring in the macho bullshit and insults when you weren't there. If you've never been in the situation of facing a life-threatening emergency in an exploring situation then you have absolutely no clue what it's like, and believe me, you don't want to find out. Go take your macho bullshit somewhere else; we don't need it here.


Posted by sweetj
All you fuckers need to know you're often one misstep or miscalculation from serious injury or death.

I applaud this dude for making the right decision to call for help.



Before I get started, a few points

1. I don't know who you are, where your from, what kind of "danger" you've been in or any other such crap.

2. I've met Cowboy Dan and the others involved in the PB incident. (they're cool guys, and I like them, fwiw) They agree they lacked the proper climbing equipment and didn't consider the temperature of the water.

3. Maybe I'm not reading the part you wrote correctly about "bullshit and insults because you wern't there" correctly. I've been to the exact spot they were in, as have most of the others who've posted. We got ourselves out.

4. I'm not, nor are most the other explorers I know, a single misstep from some kind of fatal accident. There is danger in everything. It all comes down to the steps taken (skills, gear, help from other explorers, etc) to negate that danger.

Exploring is a dangerous hobby. Once a person moves past the point of walking in to an abandonment or walking in to a cave, the level of knowledge, responsibility, and the associated technical know-how all increase exponentially. Especially in MSP.

If a person enters a dangerous system, they MUST consider these things. If that person decides to swim in an underground river in street clothes and fails to recognize the danger hypothermia presents, they could die. If a person manages to slide down a rope, and lacks the proper ascension gear to get up the rope, they could die.

If a person is unable to foresee these kinds of dangers, that person has no business in this hobby and should quit immediately, they'll only get themselves, or others around them, hurt/killed.

It is 100% irresponsible to go in to something you cant figure your way out of. Sure, stuff happens, but a person needs to prepare for every possible contingency (be it through gear, skills, or other explorers). There are many places in MSP no emergency personnel could ever reach.

I know people in MSP who've been knocked unconscious in tunnels....it could have been bad, other explorers carried them out. They recognized the danger before they went in and made sure they had other explorers around. Danger negated.

The fire department, police department, and the ambulance service exists to help people who are in trouble. All three services are designed to assist those who, in the course of their daily lives, require assistance.

It happens, from time to time, especially to the police, where someone goes off the deep end or something extraordinary happens and they're required to resolve the situation, sometimes at risk to their own lives.

So, when a person becomes trapped in a system they thought was "cool" and that person was unable to plan for the most basic of contingencies (in this case, cold water and climbing a rope), it's their own fault. In this case, a decision was made to quit and call the fire department. The fire department showed up and put their own well being on the line to save people....all because of a lack of planning.

When the fire department showed up, they had proper climbing equipment and the gear necessary to deal with the water and nobody died. It all ended well.

What is so frustrating, is how easily this entire situation could have been avoided. ($100 at REI would have done the trick) Additionally, there could have been other emergencies, "real ones", occurring at the same time, and instead of being able to focus on those other potential emergencies, the Minneapolis Fire Department had to help people out of a deadly situation they did 100% to themselves.

This is why explorers get pegged as "dumb kids". So when something like this happens, they deserve the shit they get. (and CowboyDan has taken it like a man) I'd bet my own money they won't do it again. I also bet they'll continue to explore and will be more prepared in the future. Furthermore, I'd bet a ton of other noobs have read this thread. Hopefully, they'll think/plan before they act.







All the treasure are belong to me. We got a slat, for that!
DJ Craig 

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 51 on 9/20/2012 1:44 PM >
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Dalmaticus, this was at least an intelligent response, which I can respect far more than you just calling someone a "candy ass". I still don't really agree with any of it, but I get where you're coming from at least.

I, too, have been to the exact spot and know exactly what we're talking about. I haven't rappelled it, but I do have a lot of rope experience and would have done it in a heartbeat given the opportunity. That rappel looks first of all, very fun, and second, extremely dangerous. These are the things we are all attracted to as explorers. We deliberately walk along the edge at all times. That's the entire point. And sometimes we make mistakes.

But having been to the location on a different day with a different group isn't really relevant. Conditions vary (that water probably isn't the exact same temperature every day) and so do people's body's tolerances for extreme conditions, such as cold water. Cold water can kill you damn fast. Everyone knows their own limits, and no one intends to put themselves beyond their own limits, but it can happen. They have learned from their mistakes. I just don't agree with putting them down and making fun of them for it. They've already been through hell in this situation and they don't need crap from us.

I know enough about ropework that I realize some of the mistakes they made were very easy to fix, and a lot of this comes down to inexperience with rope. We all make mistakes.




"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess
CowboyDan 


Location: MSP
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 26 likes




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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 52 on 9/21/2012 1:49 AM >
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Thought this thread was dead, guess not. As far as shit talking goes, that is just something that comes with a situation like this. I’m not in High School and I don’t take it too seriously. Dalmaticus is right; this whole shitshow was caused by poor planning and lack of foresight on our part and could easily have been prevented with proper equipment. I have definitely learned a lot from this whole thing, and if putting up with some shit talking is part of that, so be it.

What can I say, we were dumb and paid the price, I’m just thankful it all ended as well as it did. If some people want to exhibit their frustration with me by calling me a “little girl” or whatever, that’s their prerogative. My actions did bring a ton of unwanted publicity to the specific location as well as UE in Minneapolis/St. Paul as a whole. Of course, I appreciate the intelligent criticisms more that the generic flaming but people get pissed and react accordingly, it’s not up to me how they show it.




Dalmaticus 


Location: MSP / Fargo
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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 53 on 9/21/2012 2:11 AM >
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Posted by DJ Craigthis was at least an intelligent response, which I can respect far more than you just calling someone a "candy ass".



Sweet.

Now lets all go back to flaming, trolling, and name calling!

=)




All the treasure are belong to me. We got a slat, for that!
scatwomb 


Location: duluth
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 13 likes




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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 54 on 9/21/2012 5:16 AM >
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Double-fisted-post. Breaking rules. Etc.



[last edit 9/21/2012 5:19 AM by scatwomb - edited 1 times]

scatwomb 


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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 55 on 9/21/2012 5:16 AM >
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Posted by Dalmaticus




Before I get started, a few points

1. I don't know who you are, where your from, what kind of "danger" you've been in or any other such crap.

2. I've met Cowboy Dan and the others involved in the PB incident. (they're cool guys, and I like them, fwiw) They agree they lacked the proper climbing equipment and didn't consider the temperature of the water.

3. Maybe I'm not reading the part you wrote correctly about "bullshit and insults because you wern't there" correctly. I've been to the exact spot they were in, as have most of the others who've posted. We got ourselves out.

4. I'm not, nor are most the other explorers I know, a single misstep from some kind of fatal accident. There is danger in everything. It all comes down to the steps taken (skills, gear, help from other explorers, etc) to negate that danger.

Exploring is a dangerous hobby. Once a person moves past the point of walking in to an abandonment or walking in to a cave, the level of knowledge, responsibility, and the associated technical know-how all increase exponentially. Especially in MSP.

If a person enters a dangerous system, they MUST consider these things. If that person decides to swim in an underground river in street clothes and fails to recognize the danger hypothermia presents, they could die. If a person manages to slide down a rope, and lacks the proper ascension gear to get up the rope, they could die.

If a person is unable to foresee these kinds of dangers, that person has no business in this hobby and should quit immediately, they'll only get themselves, or others around them, hurt/killed.

It is 100% irresponsible to go in to something you cant figure your way out of. Sure, stuff happens, but a person needs to prepare for every possible contingency (be it through gear, skills, or other explorers). There are many places in MSP no emergency personnel could ever reach.

I know people in MSP who've been knocked unconscious in tunnels....it could have been bad, other explorers carried them out. They recognized the danger before they went in and made sure they had other explorers around. Danger negated.

The fire department, police department, and the ambulance service exists to help people who are in trouble. All three services are designed to assist those who, in the course of their daily lives, require assistance.

It happens, from time to time, especially to the police, where someone goes off the deep end or something extraordinary happens and they're required to resolve the situation, sometimes at risk to their own lives.

So, when a person becomes trapped in a system they thought was "cool" and that person was unable to plan for the most basic of contingencies (in this case, cold water and climbing a rope), it's their own fault. In this case, a decision was made to quit and call the fire department. The fire department showed up and put their own well being on the line to save people....all because of a lack of planning.

When the fire department showed up, they had proper climbing equipment and the gear necessary to deal with the water and nobody died. It all ended well.

What is so frustrating, is how easily this entire situation could have been avoided. ($100 at REI would have done the trick) Additionally, there could have been other emergencies, "real ones", occurring at the same time, and instead of being able to focus on those other potential emergencies, the Minneapolis Fire Department had to help people out of a deadly situation they did 100% to themselves.

This is why explorers get pegged as "dumb kids". So when something like this happens, they deserve the shit they get. (and CowboyDan has taken it like a man) I'd bet my own money they won't do it again. I also bet they'll continue to explore and will be more prepared in the future. Furthermore, I'd bet a ton of other noobs have read this thread. Hopefully, they'll think/plan before they act.







Obviously they we're ill-equipped, unprepared and made poor decisions which led them to the dilemma they faced. And, yes, it's extremely frustrating to see this from an explorer's perspective. Especially because they we're in a situation that could have, from our perspectives, been easily avoided.

Nevertheless, they were still in a precarious situation. And, despite their lack-planning-stupidity/arrogance/eagerness/whatever-you-wanna-call-it, they we're still in a dangerous situation which warranted a professional response. I will always respect an individual's health, no matter their circumstances, before the exploring community.

And yes, there is danger in everything. But, if you think that planning and situational awareness will negate danger, you're completely wrong. It can help prevent it, yes. But, thinking that you can be 100% situationally aware and negate all danger is the same hubristic thought-process that led to some kid getting stuck "underneath pillsbury." Which I am confident you understand. And, I am confident you're not some arrogant dude-brah who thinks he can conquer the underworld with PBR taped to his dude-brah hands.

Does it suck that MFD's resources we're temporarily used because some kids had poor planning skills? Yes - I mean, I am pretty sure heaps of babies died in SE MPLS because of it.

Does it suck that people generalize about stuff they hear in the news about subcultures and start pegging explorers as "dumb kids"? Sure, why not? I can see why someone would get offended when their subculture, and thus identity, is ridiculed.

Maybe you're thinking of the broader implications of the "dumb kid" moniker. Maybe you see it as an existential threat to exploring and your community. I think, despite explorers' paranoia, political pressure to prevent "dumb kids" from urban exploring will amount to very little in the long run. Things you should care about that affect exploring are: conjured fears of terrorists, graffiti, theft, basic infrastructural improvement, gentrification, etc. Maybe you disagree - that's fine.

To be clear, I think they made some horrible decisions before they faced the dilemma of whether or not to call the cops. I think, at the moment, they made the best decision for themselves and the community.

We are talking about different things - you're talking about how short-sighted they acted and all the implications of that (which you're spot on about, for the most part). And, I think, considering their circumstances (this clause is incredibly important, fyi), they made the right decision after they realized they we're fucked.

Anyways, I grew up in Minneapolis. Explored the vagina-to-butt-to-pee-hole out of the Twin Cities. But now I go where the research grants take me. Which is currently the desert southwest. I don't have a ton of friends on UER, but, almost everyone I've meet at various events and have explored with from MSP has been awesome. I miss the place a lot. I miss the sandstone particles in my pillows at night. I miss the poop tunnels and their scat-filled glory. I miss how-much-you-fuckers-care-about-your-little-fucking-insular-exploring-community.









[last edit 9/21/2012 5:25 AM by scatwomb - edited 1 times]

scatwomb 


Location: duluth
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 13 likes




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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 56 on 9/21/2012 5:27 AM >
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Posted by Dalmaticus


Or one post away from sounding like a candy ass.


Ha, I just saw this.

Lame.




Freak 


Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 247 likes


Hypocrite

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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 57 on 9/21/2012 2:05 PM >
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Posted by CowboyDan
Thought this thread was dead, guess not. As far as shit talking goes, that is just something that comes with a situation like this. I’m not in High School and I don’t take it too seriously. Dalmaticus is right; this whole shitshow was caused by poor planning and lack of foresight on our part and could easily have been prevented with proper equipment. I have definitely learned a lot from this whole thing, and if putting up with some shit talking is part of that, so be it.

What can I say, we were dumb and paid the price, I’m just thankful it all ended as well as it did. If some people want to exhibit their frustration with me by calling me a “little girl” or whatever, that’s their prerogative. My actions did bring a ton of unwanted publicity to the specific location as well as UE in Minneapolis/St. Paul as a whole. Of course, I appreciate the intelligent criticisms more that the generic flaming but people get pissed and react accordingly, it’s not up to me how they show it.



I'd go exploring with this guy, even if he did fuck up once. At least he can take some ribbing like a man, and he knows how to spell and capitalize! That's better than 80% of UER members





Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137
Keaven 


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Gender: Male
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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 58 on 9/21/2012 2:44 PM >
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Posted by Freak


I'd go exploring with this guy, even if he did fuck up once. At least he can take some ribbing like a man, and he knows how to spell and capitalize! That's better than 80% of UER members




Me too. He faced up to his screw up. He has obviously learned from it. I'd rather explore with someone who admits making a mistake than with someone who thinks he knows it all.




scatwomb 


Location: duluth
Gender: Male
Total Likes: 13 likes




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Re: guy gets stuck under pillsbury.
< Reply # 59 on 9/21/2012 3:37 PM >
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Posted by Keaven
I'd rather explore with someone who admits making a mistake than with someone who thinks he knows it all.


+1

This is so important. Heck yes.




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