Yes, and nobody is forcing anyone to use the Journal feature here. It has minimum functionality, and is only here as a place to put stuff. If you find it too restrictive, please go ahead and start your own journal on LiveJournal or a similar place.

I partly agree what Ninj. said, although like I mentioned in my journal, it always takes time to upload updated journal to my website.

Although it might be, that I'll copy the entries that I've made here and add them to somewhere in my site, after like six months etc.

If my site would be just about UE, I perhaps would have the time, but as the history section takes most of the time, Av's journal option is really good, as it saves time...at least for me.

I'm not planning on writing up my exploits in the journal, but using it just to say whats on my mind about various ue related things, and just somethings in general.

If this journal feature functions as an incubator to get people working on their own sites and projects, I think that'll be great.

If, on the other hand, it just saps out creative energy people might otherwise have used to make something unique and special, I think that'll be a shame.

I guess it could go either way.

Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org

I'm disappointed in you, Ninj.

You're always talking about how much you prefer stories and writing over hastily-slapped-together photo galleries. You yourself keep a journal on your site.

I thought you would embrace this feature, since it's a place for people to express themselves outside of the topic-oriented format of the forum itself. It's a place to read what's new about that particular person, and what they've been up to.

Just because it's provided by UER and not on LiveJournal or someone's own website, that makes it evil and "sapping creative energy?"

The creativity is in the writing, not in the hosting.

I think Ninj is worried about the centralization of the UE community, particularly centralizing it to UER - if I understand this quote correctly...

If this journal feature functions as an incubator to get people working on their own sites and projects, I think that'll be great.

Basically, I believe Ninj is saying that if this journal idea on UER instigates the growth of projects outside of the UER fold, then the journal could be a good thing. There seems to be an overlying concern that where there could have once been a plethora of urban exploration-type websites, we're seeing the possibility of them all amalgamating into UER.

I personally don't know where I stand on this issue. Is there a fear of UER becoming too big for it's britches? Of corporate hostile takeovers of non-UER websites? Maybe - but I don't see how the additon of a new message board feature points things in that direction.

However, I do see how users only being able to call their journal "Crossfire's Journal" instead of "Crossfire's Super-Fun Happy Circus of Fun" as sapping the creative juices. It's a test - allow journal names to be whatever the users want. If the test fails, then instigate rules governing journal names.

C.

I think what Ninj is saying, is that as UER offers more and more features, then there will be less desire among new explorers to create new sites or original projects. As everything we see has that UER database feel to it, it begins to lose it's personality. I think this is a nice feature to share amongst UER members, but people should still put together their own sites, be it a live journal thing, or a crummy geocities site. That way it can be shared with the world.

Asylunt

Edit: Crossfire beat me to it, but yeah basically what he said in so many words.

Posted by Ninjalicious I think people could produce creative, innovative blogs and sites with real personality if they did it themselves instead of relying on this site's location database and this new journaling board. It's generous of Av to offer these features to people who are too lazy or too computer illiterate to establish projects of their own, but I really don't understand the general drive to amalgamation and centralizaton. The template-driven, fill-in-the-blanks (and you had better damn well fill in those blanks correctly!) style encouraged here is bound to diminish or kill off any passion, creativity and innovation people might otherwise have brought to their sites. These journals might be fine, but they can't be great under these conditions. Who can feel passionate about a mere thread on someone else's board? Do it yourself, if you can. Diversity is good. Ninj http://www.infiltration.org

I understand and appreciate what you're saying Ninj...and agree to an extent. However, not all of us have the time, resources or inclination available to create, operate and maintain an independent UE website/blog/what-have-you. Perhaps someday when my workload decreases and I actually find some meaningful spare time, I just might put together an independent site.

But for now I find UER quite adequate for at least displaying some of my UE images and stories (even if just in template format) rather than the additional work of fabricating an entire site for it.

People can still be passionate and creative about UEing without maintaining their own sites. It can be reflected in the style or uniqueness of the photography, the creativity of stories and anecdotes, etc.


Silent Knight

I see what you're saying.

UER was never meant to compete with other websites -- originally it was just a forum, a place where people could get together to talk about stuff.

The UEDB was supposed to be an index of places by location and name, not something to take over individual websites. In fact, I originally intended the UEDB to be two things: (1) a place for explorers who had no websites to put their stuff, and (2) a place where people who DO have websites could put links to their sites.

I would be happy if the UEDB was used simply as an index of links, and I'd also be happy if this Journal feature is used simply for people to post "here's a link to my journal, which i've just updated."

-av

I like the idea. It's easier to see what everyone's up to as opposed to jumping around a few dozen websites.

well.. I see what ninj is saying.. but i think it's a nice idea because it encourages people who would otherwise never start their own website or journal to begin writing one. Maybe later on after they develop their skills they'll be able to make a site of their own.

Posted by bsides I like the idea. It's easier to see what everyone's up to as opposed to jumping around a few dozen websites.

exactly. you can easily click on a few posts here and see what's going on with everyone, instead of taking three hours to track down each person's individual web site (which may not even have a journal)... Not that you should be discouraged from visiting personal web sites. But it gives you a quick and easy view of what's going on with everyone here...

Might I suggest there be a link from a person's profile to their journal?

Av: I think journals are good, as I think independent websites are good and zines are good and a wide variety of creative enterprises are good. I just don't see the benefit of having them all under the same umbrella, particularly when said umbrella can be a little small and restrictive at times.

It's cool for people to be writing journals at all, for sure. I just think it would be even cooler if they were doing it independently, on their own terms, with their own designs and interfaces and frills and titles and all of that good stuff. I just don't want people to let the convenience of using UER features like the location database and the journal board prevent them from making the extra effort it takes to create something special with real personality.

If the choice is between a journal here and nothing, of course I'd take the journal here. But if the choice is between a journal here and a regularly updated independent website, I would definitely take the independent website.

Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org

I likened it to Yahoo groups. Instead of gathering together on a small number of groups, everyone goes off and starts their own niche Yahoo group...and attracts a half dozen members. And then everyone says, "Hey, where'd everyone go?"

With Yahoo, it stifles interaction with others (when was the last time you ever saw anyone in a Yahoo group chat?).


Silent Knight

Posted by Silent Knight I likened it to Yahoo groups. Instead of gathering together on a small number of groups, everyone goes off and starts their own niche Yahoo group...and attracts a half dozen members. And then everyone says, "Hey, where'd everyone go?" With Yahoo, it stifles interaction with others (when was the last time you ever saw anyone in a Yahoo group chat?). Silent Knight

I know a yahoo group that really thrived, it was started like four years ago by some of my friends and it still posted to every day by most of the original members (some three hundred or so people) who've been having conventions and meetups for the past three years but maybe that's just a fluke.

I actually know of a yahoo group that's been going on since early '99, and before that the members gathered on the old AOL forums since '94 so there are some exceptions, but I hate Yahoo groups, I just can't get the others to switch to something else.

Anyway back on topic, I do think that a link in the profile is a good idea. Also are these going to stay listed in order of last post or are they going to adopt something like the encyclopedia or website update forums. Just curious, as the size grows it might be difficult to track down a specific user if they haven't updated in awhile.

Asylunt

Ninj: You seem to equate having a journal here with having an uncreative, fill-in-the-blanks journal.

Let's compare a journal here versus a journal on someone's own website:

- Both can post whenever they want, with pictures
- The custom website may allow comments to be added
- The custom website may allow showing comments by date
- The custom website will generally allow a lot more than UER does.

So, if anyone wants more than what UER offers, nobody is stopping them from going ahead and doing it themselves, and nobody is forcing them to use the UER journal.

You can now title the journal anything you want, with some guidelines.

In response to Ninj's comments, and pardon me if this has been mentioned before, but I kind of like this, because, while said explorer could do his own "blog" whatever that is, the opportunity to do it here is fun, because you can see what people you have gotten to "know" as far as the internet allows that, have been doing. I'm sure this will be especially popular after OPEX.
I personally can't think of anything I care to put here, but it seems like a fun concept.
Unfortunately it adds to the addictive quality of this site, which means more time staring at some balloonhead's "journal entry" hoping he/ she will say something stupid that I can get a chuckle out of .
Just my thoughts. Sorry if they have been repeated elsewhere.
'Dukes

*edited for NYUE level spelling

Ninj, I gotta say I disagree on that one. With all my various art projects, exploring, two jobs and other crap I have going on, its really nice to be able to just update something so easily. I dont feel like it cant be great. I already know im going to use it regularly. It may not be the fabulous creation I would make if I had the time to put something together myself, but I dont see the content suffering much from the fact that its on UER and not synesthetic light.

edit:spelling

Would putting the journals in alphabetical order be more sensible, kind of like the UE encyclopedia?