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UER Forum > Rookie Forum > how to avoid B&E charges (Viewed 309 times)
existential_ranger 


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how to avoid B&E charges
< on 4/14/2019 10:53 PM >
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so my question is this:
if there is a location (old factory, warehouse, etc) that is locked up. how would you enter without breaking any laws? and if for some unfortunate reason you accidentally break and enter. what do you do?

bonus question: if you set off an alarm in a non-active building, what do.

this is all purely hypothetical btw.




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RescueMe1060 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 1 on 4/14/2019 11:23 PM >
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dont carry and B&E tools and don't be stupid when the law shows up. simple.




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existential_ranger 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 2 on 4/14/2019 11:45 PM >
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sounds about right. thank




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RescueMe1060 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 3 on 4/14/2019 11:57 PM >
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could you clarify what you meant by "accidentally" breaking and entering?

I feel like most people on here would know whether or not they have broken in to a place, and I don't think the law would believe the excuse that an explorer "didn't know" that they had broken in...




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Cfourexplore 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 4 on 4/15/2019 1:18 AM >
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If you enter an abandoned building, or the property it's on, 9 times out of ten you're breaking some law or another; trespassing, unlawful entry, ect.
Not sure how you'd 'accidentally' break in, but actually breaking, jimmying, or destroying something to gain entry is gonna carry a heavier (and felonious) B&E charge than just climbing through an opening or walking in a door. Of course, committing the lesser of the two won't immunize you from the risk of having the book thrown at you.
RescueMe makes good points; don't be stupid when you're caught...you're just an innocuous and curious explorer who maaaay have missed that 'keep out' sign (ahhh, selective perception). And yes, don't get caught with tools. If possible it's probably better to be caught outside than in, so know your exits and approaches, be aware of what's going on around you.
Personally if I can't find a PoE, I let it go, and wait for another day, or look for another site.
As for alarms, there are several other members that have experiences and advice more helpful than I could give; I haven't had it happen yet, but assuming I heard it go off, I'd likely GTFO ASAP.
Good luck out there!




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blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 5 on 4/15/2019 1:33 AM >
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Posted by RescueMe1060
could you clarify what you meant by "accidentally" breaking and entering?

I feel like most people on here would know whether or not they have broken in to a place, and I don't think the law would believe the excuse that an explorer "didn't know" that they had broken in...


Indeed.
Although one member was charge with it for opening an unlocked door and entering years ago in MA, I believe.
Hypothetically speaking it's not a problem unless you get arrested...




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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 6 on 4/15/2019 2:58 AM >
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Posted by RescueMe1060
could you clarify what you meant by "accidentally" breaking and entering?

I feel like most people on here would know whether or not they have broken in to a place, and I don't think the law would believe the excuse that an explorer "didn't know" that they had broken in...


The law where I am, Korea, would say you can be arrested even if you accidentally break something. Foot goes through a floor and the police can prove it, that's a charge. Climb a wall and it accidentally tips over, that's a charge.

Note that breaking and entering always involves breaking something. If you find a smashed window and enter that way and are later caught, the excuse "it was like that when I got here" could save you.




blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 7 on 4/15/2019 3:39 AM >
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The law varies according to country, state and county, etc. US National Parks and Federal properties have their own set of laws.

"The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not.[4][5][6]

Breaking can be either actual, such as by forcing open a door, or constructive, such as by fraud or threats.[4] Breaking does not require that anything be "broken" in terms of physical damage occurring. A person who has permission to enter part of a house, but not another part, commits a breaking and entering when they use any means to enter a room where they are not permitted, so long as the room was not open to enter.Entering can involve either physical entry by a person, or the insertion of an instrument to remove property. Insertion of a tool to gain entry may not constitute entering by itself.[4]Note that there must be a breaking and an entering for common-law burglary. Breaking without entry or entry without breaking is not sufficient for common-law burglary.Although rarely listed as an element, the common law required that "entry occur as a consequence of the breaking".[7] For example, if a wrongdoer partially opens a window with a pry bar—but then notices an open door, which he uses to enter the dwelling, there is no burglary under common law.[7][Note 1] The use of the pry bar would not constitute an entry even if a portion of the prybar "entered" the residence. Under the instrumentality rule the use of an instrument to effect a breaking would not constitute an entry. However, if any part of the perpetrator's body entered the residence in an attempt to gain entry, the instrumentality rule did not apply. Thus, if the perpetrator uses the prybar to pry open the window and then used his hands to lift the partially opened window, an "entry" would have taken place when he grasped the bottom of the window with his hands.[7][8]House includes a temporarily unoccupied dwelling, but not a building used only occasionally as a habitation.[4]Night time is defined as hours between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise.[4]Typically this element is expressed as the intent to commit a felony “therein”. The use of the word “therein” adds nothing and certainly does not limit the scope of burglary to those wrongdoers who break and enter a dwelling intending to commit a felony on the premises.[7] The situs of the felony does not matter, and burglary occurs if the wrongdoer intended to commit a felony at the time he broke and entered.[7]

The common-law elements of burglary often vary between jurisdictions. The common-law definition has been expanded in most jurisdictions, such that the building need not be a dwelling or even a building in the conventional sense, physical breaking is not necessary, the entry does not need to occur at night, and the intent may be to commit any felony or theft.[9]"
The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not.[4][5][6]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary





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Gothic Ghoul 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 8 on 4/15/2019 4:15 PM >
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Accidental B&E?




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blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 9 on 4/15/2019 5:10 PM >
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Posted by Gothic Ghoul
Accidental B&E?


You mean like in Asia?
The charges can fall under burglary even if you walk through an open door.
One member recently had this experience.
They may care to comment here...

Going through an open window is even more problematic if caught.
You need not force or break anything to be charged.
Depends on the LEO and the DA how much hassle, lose of money and criminal record you will or won't incur.




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mookster 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 10 on 4/15/2019 5:23 PM >
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Posted by RescueMe1060
could you clarify what you meant by "accidentally" breaking and entering?

I feel like most people on here would know whether or not they have broken in to a place, and I don't think the law would believe the excuse that an explorer "didn't know" that they had broken in...


I think the best way to clarify 'accidental' B&E is as follows.

Say you're scouting out a location and decide to see if there is some way inside. Now as I'm sure we've all done before we see if any doors or windows that appear closed are actually openable, but lets say the frame holding the window in question in place is so rotten that in the process of you trying to open it the 'right' way the whole thing falls out the wall.

That is the sort of 'accidental' B&E I believe the OP was on about, and it's happened to friends of mine particularly when trying to access abandoned houses.

However as has been said the best way to avoid a charge is to simply not do it in the first place.



[last edit 4/15/2019 5:24 PM by mookster - edited 1 times]

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blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 11 on 4/15/2019 5:37 PM >
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Posted by mookster


I think the best way to clarify 'accidental' B&E is as follows.

Say you're scouting out a location and decide to see if there is some way inside. Now as I'm sure we've all done before we see if any doors or windows that appear closed are actually openable, but lets say the frame holding the window in question in place is so rotten that in the process of you trying to open it the 'right' way the whole thing falls out the wall.

That is the sort of 'accidental' B&E I believe the OP was on about, and it's happened to friends of mine particularly when trying to access abandoned houses.

However as has been said the best way to avoid a charge is to simply not do it in the first place.


Going through a window in it's self will open up to charges in many states.
Causing physical damage will weigh against you and increase the likelihood of more serious charges.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense; know and understand the state that your in penal code before you get in a jam.




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mookster 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 12 on 4/15/2019 6:04 PM >
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Posted by blackhawk


Going through a window in it's self will open up to charges in many states.
Causing physical damage will weigh against you and increase the likelihood of more serious charges.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense; know and understand the state that your in penal code before you get in a jam.



I get that.

Don't forget I'm not an American, and different laws can and do apply overseas.




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blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 13 on 4/15/2019 6:09 PM >
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Posted by mookster


I get that.

Don't forget I'm not an American, and different laws can and do apply overseas.


Exactly. Splorers need to know local laws.
In Korea it seems that if you don't steal or run from LEOs you'll be OK.




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blitz 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 14 on 4/15/2019 6:37 PM >
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jeepdave has repeatedly talked about the pro's of carrying a clipboard and looking very official.

"oh jeez, they must have given me the wrong address, i'm here to repo a car"

hidden in plain sight, as they say...




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blackhawk 

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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 15 on 4/15/2019 6:48 PM >
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Posted by blitz
jeepdave has repeatedly talked about the pro's of carrying a clipboard and looking very official.

"oh jeez, they must have given me the wrong address, i'm here to repo a car"

hidden in plain sight, as they say...



Problem is when confronted by a LEO... they hate being lied to.
I'm pretty much wysiwyg.
Asking for permission has worked very well for me multiple times but not every time.




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stealthwraith 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 16 on 4/15/2019 7:33 PM >
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I have avoided this by not breaking and entering and being uncomfortably honest if confronted.




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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 17 on 4/15/2019 10:00 PM >
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Ive had my hand spanked for posting in the Rookie Forum but somebody needs to tell this guy to look at the law in the state he plans to commit this crime.

Texas for example does not have "B&E" we only have burglary, or burglary of a habitation and all sorts of variations thereof.

Look at your state's website or use LawFinder or something similar. Nobody will think youre cool like asking a bunch of urbexorz but you will get the state statute and all the definitions which is all that counts.


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Geez, sue me. Just asking for recommendations. And I never claimed myself to be a explorer, frankly, the title doesn't mean squat to me. [/quote]
existential_ranger 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 18 on 4/16/2019 12:57 AM >
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by "accidental B&E" I guess I meant doing something you wouldn't normally see as B&E. sorry if I caused confusion




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shadeblanco 


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Re: how to avoid B&E charges
< Reply # 19 on 4/16/2019 1:56 PM >
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I've set a couple of alarms off in my ripe five years of exploring, and thank god for my youth because I ran like a bat out of hell. My best advice on alarms is to get out quick. Do not stick around for an alarm response. You'll be in for it if you do trust me.

Normally, if the boys in blue show up, I'd say confront them first. Tell them what you're doing. Offer to show some pics you've taken. A lot of the time I've just been asked to leave after they realized I've just got a camera and a tripod. I think some other guys on this site have told of similar situations where cops even let them stay for a bit after showing up. Transparency and honesty will get you a long way. Again though, if you set an alarm off scram.

Of course non of this applies if you're caught picking locks or smashing windows.




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